Tuesday Aug 26, 2025
25: Marcus Sheridan Live Interview
Lightning-in-a-bottle episode. Marcus Sheridan (author of They Ask, You Answer and Endless Customers) breaks down exactly how home service and local businesses can create “oxygen” (leads) on demand—without gimmicks. His playbook: obsess over buyer questions, publish with radical transparency (especially on cost), and build comparison/problem content (“The Big 5”). Layer in self-serve tools like on-site price estimators, and shift your media strategy so video (especially YouTube) becomes the primary trust engine.
Marcus also explains how AI is changing search: websites are trending toward bottom-of-funnel while AI and social surface answers up front—so you must send the right “trust signals” across the web to be recommended by AI. He previews two practical levers: PriceGuide.ai (fast, low-cost estimators that lift leads 3–5x) and AITustSignals.com (a 19-point authority audit).
Beyond tactics, Marcus shares the mindset that saved his pool company during the 2008 crash: learn faster than anyone, communicate simply, and stay “hungry in prosperity.” He maps the pain→prosperity “pride cycle,” urges leaders to treat drive time as learn time, and credits communication skill as the #1 income lever. If leads have slowed post-COVID “rainbow,” this episode hands you the exact moves to get back to profitable growth—today.
Resources:
Guest: Marcus Sheridan | LinkedIn
Transcript:
Sid Graef: Hello everyone. Welcome to the Huge Transformations podcast. I’m Sid Graef outta Montana.
Gabe Torres: I’m Gabe Torres here in Nashville, Tennessee.
Sheila Smeltzer: And I’m Sheila Smeltzer from North Carolina, we are your hosts and guides through the landscape of growing a successful home service business. We do this by interviewing the best home service business builders in the industry—folks that have already built seven- and eight-figure businesses—and they want to help you succeed.
Gabe Torres: Yep. No fake gurus on this show. Just real-life owners that have been in the trenches and can help show you the way to grow profitably. We get insights and truths from successful business builders, and every episode is 100% experience, 0% theory. We are going to dig deep and reveal the good, the bad, and the ugly.
Sheila Smeltzer: Our guests will share with you the pitfalls to avoid and the keys to winning. In short, our guest will show you how to transform your home service business into a masterpiece. Thanks for joining us on the wild journey of entrepreneurship. Let’s dive in.
Sid Graef: Hey my friend. Welcome back to the Huge Transformations podcast. This is Sid, and again, we’ve got a special episode. This was recorded live in person at The Huge Convention, and I got to sit down for almost an hour with our keynote speaker, Marcus Sheridan. Now, you may know Marcus as the author of They Ask, You Answer and his latest book Endless Customers, and he’s a multi-bestseller on the New York Times bestseller list, Amazon bestseller list. But when I introduced him on stage for a keynote Friday, I introduced him and said, “Get ready for lightning in a bottle.” And there is no doubt this man is incredibly sharp. He’s deeply, deeply knowledgeable and experienced in setting up systems that drive leads to your company constantly and forever.
So if you ever experienced a shortage of leads, you’re gonna really want to pay attention and take notes to this episode. We sat down for almost an hour and I got some inside, really deep information that he doesn’t normally share. And I hope you enjoy this episode of the Huge Transformations show. Please meet Marcus Sheridan.
Sid Graef: So this is the Huge Transformations podcast, and I’m Sid Graef, your host. This is really an exceptional moment because normally we do all of our interviews on Zoom.
Marcus Sheridan: Yeah.
Sid Graef: And I’m kind of sick of Zoom too, but to have an opportunity to, like, sit in the same room and have a conversation and talk about the journey—
Marcus Sheridan: Yeah. We can have our own Joe Rogan experience.
Sid Graef: There we go. Let’s—good. Alright, I’ll do my Joe Rogan best and go, “Jamie, pull up that video, do the thing, bring out the cigars.” We’ll be all right.
Marcus Sheridan: Yeah. Perfect.
Sid Graef: So thanks very much for your time. We’ve got Marcus Sheridan and you’ve got a long bio, which I loved going over this morning, but the short version is: started a pool company, almost went bankrupt, became the largest-trafficked pool website in the world. And you can tell that story. And then you wrote a book about it—They Ask, You Answer. And I would have to guess it changed your life in a lot of ways.
Marcus Sheridan: Very much.
Sid Graef: And you just released your newest book, Endless Customers.
Marcus Sheridan: Yes. Endless Customers.
Sid Graef: Endless Customers. That’s right. I didn’t mention this morning on stage—the pre-show survey we did had about 20% of people fill it out. The number one issue people said, period—leads.
Marcus Sheridan: Yeah.
Sid Graef: And you know, the COVID rainbow is over for home services. And so now we’ve gotta get back to innovating with how we market and how we sell.
Marcus Sheridan: I feel a CEO’s number one job is to make sure that the company can breathe—that it has oxygen—and leads are oxygen. Yes, you have to have cash flow, but without leads, you don’t have cash flow.
Sid Graef: Where’s your cash flow?
Marcus Sheridan: So it starts—everything starts—with leads. You can have an okay service and fix it over time in terms of delivery; your sales team can be okay; you can improve over time. But if your leads—your marketing—is bad, you will die.
Sid Graef: Yeah, you’ll die for sure. Let’s talk about the journey and transformation, but go all the way to the beginning. I know people talk about the pool company, but what was your first entrepreneurial leaning? Did you have a lemonade stand when you were a kid? Did you do any of that kind of stuff?
Marcus Sheridan: No, I really had no idea that I was gonna be an entrepreneur, much less a pool guy—because who says, “I’m gonna be a pool guy,” right? I was attending college at West Virginia University, just graduated, and I had a job in Northern Virginia. I was already married. I got married young. My wife and I did not like the D.C. area, and so we decided to move back home where we grew up until I figured out what I was gonna do with my career.
My two friends had just started a swimming pool company at the time. They had a little beat-up pickup truck and they had just opened this rough retail store. And they said to me—because they were essentially family members—“Hey, we just started this pool company. Would you come and run the retail store while we’re installing pools out in the field?” I said, “Sure, until I figure out what I’m gonna do with my life.” And then six months later they said, “We don’t want you to leave. Would you be a partner?” I was like, “Nah, it looks stressful. I don’t really think so.” And they came back again and they said, “No, no. We really want you to be a partner. Would you be a one-third partner?” And so I said, “Okay.” And that’s when I became a pool guy. So by 2001, I’m a pool guy.
We were doing more than that. We were doing retail; we were selling hot tubs; selling above-ground pools—jack of all trades, master of none. I do want to share one experience though, from selling hot tubs—I think it’s relevant for everybody. I had this experience where I was in the showroom one day. This guy walks in, he asked me a question about one of the hot tubs. I’d been working there for like three weeks. I didn’t really have an answer because he was more advanced—he owned a hot tub. So this guy knew his stuff and he could quickly tell that I didn’t know my stuff. He asked me some more questions for which I didn’t have great answers. And he finally says, “If you can’t answer my questions, why do you even work here?”
I was like, “Oh yeah, that feels good.” What happened next was I completely immersed myself in everything about hot tubs. I memorized every—any—information in the industry about competitors, about models, anything I could learn. A businessperson would come into the showroom and I would say, “I want you to ask me any question about any hot tub brand in the world.” And they’d ask me, and they could see—this guy literally knows more about all these brands than anybody in the world. I mean, I took it really seriously. That was one of the biggest reasons why they asked me to become a partner. But it all started with somebody punching me in the face—just getting it handed to me.
And that’s why I think we all need that sometimes. Get humbled, get flattened. That became a catalyst for me to obsessively learn, which led to me owning the company. We fought to grow the business over time. We were finally making headway and then 2008 comes. I really thought that was gonna be our year—it started off fine—but then when the crash came in September of that year, it just got worse and worse. And by January of 2009, it looked like we had to close the doors. So that meant bankruptcy. My two business partners were going to lose their homes. We were going to have to lay off all of our employees. We were borrowing money from our parents to make payroll. We weren’t getting paid. It was completely desperate—credit cards maxed out. Unbelievable stress.
That’s why I started to learn about inbound marketing from HubSpot. And it quickly made sense. I was like, “Okay, so what you’re telling me: if I just obsess over my customers’ questions, worries, fears, issues, concerns—and I address those on our website—maybe we could generate more leads that way.” So I dove in like I did with those hot tubs back in the day. By this point we were really, for the most part, just doing in-ground pools. We figured out what our thing was—our hedgehog concept—and within about a year and a half, two years, we were the most-trafficked swimming pool website in the world. And there was nobody that was coming close. And it was because we were more transparent than anyone, and we were talking about subjects nobody had ever talked about before. And we were off to the races, and the rest is history.
Sid Graef: Excuse me. Yep. So I wanted to ask this earlier. You said when you started doing that, it was about a year and a half. During that time—like, did you—you go, well, obviously the stress is still there. We’re not gonna make it, whatever. That’s 18 months.
Marcus Sheridan: I still wonder how we made it. You know what I mean? There was really just a lot of robbing Peter to pay Paul—everywhere. And it was a lot of low points, man. I remember a couple times when we had two different banks. I was writing a check for one bank, depositing to the other to make a payment, and I didn’t actually have the money in the other bank. But I was doing it just to cover some bill or whatever. And, you know, looking back, it’s kind of shameful. But that’s the desperate things that you—that’s what you do.
I remember there were moments too when you hated the business, right? Because it was causing so much stress and so much pain. But again, it’s during those moments of stress and pain that cause you to act and do outside of your norms—your comfort zone. And you start to have more of a YOLO mindset. And that’s why when people say, “Wow, you were really brave. It was transparent.” It’s like—yeah, but I had nothing to lose. I was already gonna lose my home. So it was really easy for me to say, “Alright, we’re gonna talk about how much does the fiberglass pool cost more extensively than anybody’s ever talked about it. We’re gonna compare—like—our competitors. I mean, we’re gonna do everything. If somebody’s asked me the question, we’re gonna address it.”
By the time I was mid-thirties—which was probably by 2013—I pretty much ruled the fiberglass industry as a thought leader, and I still didn’t really know how to install a pool. I couldn’t go turn on the equipment. But what I could do is ask questions of my staff, my team. I’d interview people. I remember this one time—this lady in the Virgin Islands reaches out to me and she says, “Marcus, everything I’ve learned about fiberglass pools, I’ve learned from you. Would you be willing to come out to the Virgin Islands and oversee my project? I’ve got a builder. I just don’t really trust my builder, but I trust you.”
The thing was I couldn’t say yes. Because if I went out, I… I don’t know how to shoot a grade, man—you know what I’m saying? But I could communicate in a way that people understood, which made me really, really influential.
You know, Daniel Priestley talks about this—and I love Daniel Priestley. He talks about two types of influencers. A lot of business owners say, “I don’t want to be an influencer—right? They annoy me.” There are influencers who say, “Hey, look at me.” And then there are Key People of Influence, which say, “Hey, look at this.” Very different. So I was a “Hey, look at this.” Instead of “Hey, look at me.” And I think anybody that’s watching this can be that too: “Let me show you this really cool technique. Let me show you this amazing tool. Let me show you how you can improve this.” It’s always value to you—not “let me show you what I’m eating right now.” Very, very different.
Sid Graef: Radical transparency—we had “radically transparent.” When you first started doing that, where’d you get the concept from? Was that hard for you to be really transparent or did you just go, like, you’re back to the “I got nothing to lose”—like, let’s just do it?
Marcus Sheridan: Here’s what’s wild to me, Sid: I actually didn’t think it was special. I didn’t think the fact that I was talking about things like cost and price, and that I would openly talk about our competitors—not in a negative way—was special. I literally thought, “Well, I can see how the internet works. People go there and ask questions. They get answers. They get answers from people that were willing to address the question. Most businesses aren’t willing to address these questions. I could do that.” I just didn’t overthink it.
One of the first ones I did was a cost article. Within days, it was generating leads—lots of leads.
Sid Graef: Was that the one you showed this morning?
Marcus Sheridan: Yes. And I was like, “Huh.” And over time I saw patterns. And one thing that my brain does a pretty solid job of is picking up on patterns. And one of the clearest patterns was: there were particular subjects that really popped—that resonated—that people wanted to know. They actually align too, though. If you’re listening well, you hear the questions all the time. We call ‘em the Big 5 in the book They Ask, You Answer and Endless Customers. Essentially there are five subjects that every buyer wants to know that businesses tend to avoid because they feel they’re risky to discuss. I think it’s way more risky not to discuss ‘em—and to annoy your potential customers. Especially when they’re trying to research online and they can’t find it—they get pissed.
So the five subjects are: cost-based questions—anything to do with pricing; problem-based questions—fears. Turns out when somebody is really serious about buying something, they want to know: how could it go wrong? So for example, people would ask me all the time: “Does a fiberglass pool pop out of the ground? Because somebody told me it did.” That’s a perfect example of a fear that a fiberglass pool company might not want to talk about. But I’m like—dude, I want to talk about that because I want to get in front of it. I want to address it openly. Comparison-based questions—we love comparing stuff online. So I did fiberglass versus concrete pools. I didn’t say fiberglass was better. I said, “Here’s the pros and the cons for both types. Now you decide.” And it was just so refreshingly unbiased and honest. People were like, “I like this guy.”
At the time when we started our business, 7–8% of residential pools that went in the ground in the U.S. were fiberglass. By 2020 that number was ~20%.
Sid Graef: Really?
Marcus Sheridan: Yeah. So we elevated the entire industry with awareness—but a lot of the awareness came from the fact that I was talking about other things—vinyl liner and concrete pools, which were the most common. And I was drafting off of their momentum. And anybody can do this. For example, let’s say there’s a major brand in your industry—people ask about that brand. You don’t carry that brand, but people are asking questions about that brand. Can you own the conversations about that brand? You can. You draft off of their momentum like a race car drafts off a car in front of them. Same thing. I did the same thing.
Back to your question—sorry to be so long-winded—I did not think it was special. I didn’t think it was smart. It hit me about six months in: “I’m really onto something here.” And then about nine months in I said, “I think everybody should know this.” Then I started writing about it on a personal blog—what I was doing with my pool company. And within about a year of writing about what I was doing with my pool company, events and companies reached out: “Can you teach me how to do that thing you did with your pool company?” And then as soon as I got my first stage, that was it.
The one thing I knew early on—when I was 20—I knew I was supposed to be a professional speaker. I was a missionary for my church in Chile, and I learned to speak to large audiences. I learned that I was really effective with teaching. I was a very effective missionary—using all these frameworks—and I started teaching other missionaries these frameworks. When I was done, I was 20–21 years old and I’m like, “This is what I’m supposed to do with my life,” but I didn’t have a story. So the way God works—we can’t understand in the moment—He put the pool guy thing in my lap. He made me go through a hero’s journey—which is the fall and the rise—which I’m so grateful for. And through that, now today, I’m able to relate to audiences in ways I never could have done without the real story.
That’s also why, when it comes to home improvement/home services, these are my kindred spirits. Like—man, that guy was against the ropes—getting ready to get knocked out of the ring—and look at him today.
Sid Graef: With the missionary background and stuff, after the pool business and with your speaking thing—are there biblical principles that you go, “This is part of my business”? Not saying you’re evangelizing on stage—you didn’t quote scripture today—but you have nuance.
Marcus Sheridan: Yeah, I always have nuance on stage that comes out—if somebody’s really listening for it. The biggest one is the Golden Rule, right? So if you look at the subject of—“I don’t know if I can talk about cost and price”—which, by the way, for those listening, just to be clear: it’s not that you give an exact price. You teach what drives cost up, what drives cost down, why some companies are expensive, why some companies are cheap, roughly where you fall. That’s just one of many ways to define value. Essentially, you need to teach people how to buy. Most people have never bought a pool. They don’t really know what they’re supposed to cost. They don’t know what drives cost. It’s like—a lot of people have never hired someone to clean their windows before. They don’t really know the difference. And so if you don’t talk about it, ignorance exists, and if it proliferates it causes commoditization of a service. Your job, through great education—through great teaching—is to de-commoditize the service itself.
Now, where does the Golden Rule come into play? When somebody says to me, “I can’t talk about cost and price.” First off—when you go on a website and you’re looking for cost and price information and you can’t find anything, how do you feel?
Sid Graef: I get frustrated.
Marcus Sheridan: Frustrated. Very frustrating. Now, are your customers any different—if we’re being honest?
Sid Graef: No.
Marcus Sheridan: They get frustrated too. Do you appreciate it when they give you at least a sense for pricing?
Sid Graef: Yes.
Marcus Sheridan: Do you trust them more?
Sid Graef: Yes.
Marcus Sheridan: Do you believe in the Golden Rule? If you do, then why not also offer that? So—do unto them as they would do unto you. Market unto them as you would want to be marketed to. Sell to others as you would want to be sold to. This is how I work. And I believe in being incredibly candid with people. I don’t think people are dumb. I think they’re gonna get the information from someone—so they may as well get it from me. And that has proven to be a multi–multimillion-dollar strategy for so many companies.
Sid Graef: Two things I wanted to mention—or like dig deeper on. One, I don’t know if it’s a regular framework, but when you say you need to have pricing—some structure or some pricing transparency—like give them something online: I was sitting there thinking, we don’t do that necessarily with my company. Do most people? And I was thinking—how could I do that? People can get a bid online from us. But you talked to a young woman from the crowd—Hannah Harris—and you go, “Do you know what causes your prices to go up?” You go—“Yeah, yeah.” I mean, she already knew the answer, but when you put it in front of somebody, it becomes so obvious. I’m so close I can’t see it until you just go—list these five things.
Marcus Sheridan: Yeah. And then what happens is—you see a lot of folks—service-based businesses—are like, “Man, I’m so frustrated. This guy is so cheap down the street—just giving it away.” Okay—well, have you taught the difference? Like what defines value to your market? Have you really explained it? Have you explained the nuance of what you do versus what these others do—who have to cut corners in order to survive? Have you done any of that? It’s like—well, “No, but it still makes me so mad.” I’m like, well—this is on you. It’s on you because you’re allowing the ignorance to proliferate. That’s the commoditization effect.
So I’m different than—you know, I mentioned this—this is why I developed PriceGuide. PriceGuide is that estimator tool that allows anyone—using the help of AI—to quickly, easily, and cost-effectively create a pricing estimator that they can put on their website. Now, every person, when they start the buyer’s journey—the first question they have when they know they have a problem and a need—is roughly what’s it cost. And so if you can give that to ‘em, it’s outrageously effective. We’ve got so much data on this that when someone adds an estimator to their website, they generally see a 300–500% lift.
Sid Graef: Yeah.
Marcus Sheridan: It’s incredible. And so it’s like—I can get 3–500% more leads just by giving someone a range as to what it would cost. A tool like PriceGuide—we’re talking a couple hundred dollars a year, which is outrageously cheap. You’ll make that up in the first week.
What’s wild though to me, Sid, is knowing that most still won’t do it. It is the most extraordinary thing. I shared all these things today that’ll help you get recommended by AI, show up better in search engines, win more trust with humans—5% will do it. It’s crazy, but that’s also why businesses succeed—but most fail. This is why, if you’re listening to this, you’re probably already in the top 5–10% of your space—because you’re interested in your personal development. That’s why you’re listening to a podcast right now. Otherwise, you’re not doing that—you’re just drinking a beer and watching the game. And you cannot be incredibly effective in business and not be interested in your personal development. They have to coincide—100%. It’s the law of the lid, right?
You can’t always have these mentors in person, but the fact that somebody can be mentored by you for free by listening to this podcast—what an extraordinary time we’re living in. It’s amazing. We can have a seat with—it’s beautiful. And if you’re going down the road and you’re listening to the radio and not a podcast—shame on you. As a business leader, if you really want to become the best of the best, drive time is learn time. Flat out.
Sid Graef: Yeah, for sure. Back in the day when I used to be in the truck—before listening to Zig Ziglar’s cassettes—I would go to the library and they had books on tape and all kinds of stuff. I had a couple jobs that were overnight jobs. They were terrible—like a 14-hour job—but it started at 5:00 PM and finished at 7:00 AM and you had to stay awake even while working. But it was—go get the book on tape—listen to things.
Marcus Sheridan: It’s good stuff, man. Zig Ziglar, Jim Rohn, and Earl Nightingale—back in the day. These people. I still listen to Jim Rohn probably three times a week—really—to this day. I’ve listened to thousands of hours of Jim Rohn. He’s my greatest influence professionally—by far.
Sid Graef: In our pre-roll video for the show we just have music, but it had a slideshow and it was quiet—business quotes. About 20 of those were Jim Rohn. Nobody put out better business quotes than Jim Rohn. He’s the ultimate quote master. In fact, a lot of the ones you see from other people that came after him—they recycled from Jim.
This morning I got so excited. The way you positioned it—I literally was like: this is so simple, why hadn’t I even thought of it? Some of the stuff we do, but a lot of it was like—wow. The one that caught me off guard: was it a strategic play? Did you think of it ahead of time? You talked about: you had your website, your blog, but “here’s the competitors”—what they’re good at or what they’re like. You just—yeah. It wasn’t a rating. You didn’t dunk on anybody—just about it—to get traffic from your competitors searching for them, to you.
Marcus Sheridan: Yes.
Sid Graef: I was like—what a judo move.
Marcus Sheridan: Yeah, that’s exactly what it is. You’re taking—again—you’re drafting. You’re taking the energy, and you’re transferring it to use it in your favor. That, again, came so naturally for me because I kept having people say, “We like you, Marcus. We think we’re gonna use you, but if we don’t use you, who else would you recommend?” Well—thinking about that—I know I go online and I search “best such-and-such company in such-and-such area.” So why couldn’t I do that for Richmond and for Virginia Beach and for Fredericksburg and for all of our major cities? So I did that and I named our competitors.
Now here’s what’s interesting though. There’s a change from They Ask, You Answer to Endless Customers on this. I’ve had people all over the world do that technique—especially a lot of people that have followed me, clients of mine—and they’ll own “best of” searches, which are money phrases, because people are looking for “the best fiberglass pool builder in Richmond.” That’s a buyer. They know what they want. That is a great lead.
When I wrote They Ask, You Answer, I said: leave yourself off the list. Why? Because they’re going to come to your website, and if they’re reading it, they’re on your site and you don’t want to come across as self-serving. Then when AI came out, what happened is: I noticed I was doing all these searches and I kept seeing AI sourcing my content, my clients’ content, but they weren’t showing me—me, or my client. And it was because AI was getting trained on the lists that my followers and I had made—and we had left ourselves off. I was like, “Huh. Time to change.”
So now what I teach is: you want to create the “best of” articles with criteria. Basically: “You want to know who are the best pool builders in Richmond, Virginia? What we’re going to do is show you the best based on seven criteria: how many reviews they have on Google; how many reviews on Yelp; how long they’ve been in business,” etc. Create a chart and you put the different companies on there, and now you can put yourself on there—but it’s verifiable. It’s not some biased hack. It’s verifiable based on these metrics. I’ve done that with companies and within one to two days they’re now showing up in AI recommendations.
Sid Graef: Really? That quickly.
Marcus Sheridan: Yeah.
Sid Graef: So is the SEO game with AI just faster moving?
Marcus Sheridan: Yes. It’s very fast and there’s a lot of different—we call them trust signals—that others don’t use. I’ve got a brand-new software that’s coming out this week. It’s called AITrustSignals.com. What this tool does—and you’re gonna like it, Sid—it allows you to put your website URL in, and then it gives you a full report on 19 different trust signals that AI uses to recommend you—so as to see you as an authority—and you get action items for each one. So you’ll get a score for your authority—how likely is AI to recommend me. You’ll see all of your weak areas that you’re missing with your brand across the internet. You’ll see how you score with each one of the major AIs—Gemini, Claude, and ChatGPT—and you’re gonna be like, “Holy cow—this is why it doesn’t recommend me.” Every single time you’ll see exactly, immediately.
So if you’re listening to this, you want to check that tool out—AITrustSignals.com—comes out this week. I think it’s gonna be one of the biggest things I’ve ever done because AI recommendations are going to affect so many businesses going forward. And because it’s not exactly the same as SEO—it’s AI-SEO—but it’s using a different set of parameters, and it thinks a little bit differently too. It’s fascinating and it’s evolving by the day—by the day. So if you’re listening to this, follow me on LinkedIn, because I’m constantly talking about the evolution of these trust signals.
Sid Graef: You definitely, obviously use AI a lot. Is that a cornerstone of things you’re working on now—moving forward—or you just utilize it with your business?
Marcus Sheridan: You know, it’s fascinating. I started talking about AI pretty quickly—which I’m usually not. Typically, technologically speaking, I’m a bit of a laggard. But when I see human behavior changing, I’m quick on that. I saw—this is gonna really change things. Now the other thing is: I’m a pretty big idea guy, and my issue has always been that I’ll have an idea for an incredible application that would probably drive leads like crazy—but I couldn’t build it myself. I’d have to pay a software developer to do it—might cost me $50–100,000.
What’s extraordinary about AI—and I did this on stage the other day: I took a random audience and I said, “We’re gonna build a piece of software right now—an application for your website right now.” I had done an exercise a few minutes previous—helping them understand different types of application self-service tools that they could put on their site. And she said, “Okay, well I am a marketing agency for tree companies. What I would like to build is a hurricane preparation tool for homeowners—so they know what they’re supposed to do with their trees before a hurricane or a tropical storm—and I’d like to give this away to my clients so that they can have it on their websites, which would engender more trust.”
I said, “Okay, let’s build it right now.” And in front of an audience of 300 people—talk about risk; high stakes—I went to Claude, which is an AI platform like ChatGPT, and I voice-to-texted a prompt. I didn’t even type it in. I said, “Okay, Claude, here’s what I wanna do. I want to create an application that we can put on a website. I want it to ask a person what type of trees they have, and I want you to identify what type of storm is coming. And then I want you to act as a tree expert and make recommendations as to exactly what they should do to prepare for a storm based on the trees that they input they have.”
To make a long story very short—because the whole thing took like seven minutes—voice commands, no typing—you watch the code happen live. And everybody in the audience—it built this perfect tool that literally she went and put on her website that night. And everybody was flabbergasted. Just like that—copy-and-paste code. What you could do—you take the AI and you say, “I want you to make this a WordPress plugin.” Boom. Put it in as a WordPress plugin. And it’s done. Off to the races.
I could never do that—because code was so intimidating to me. But now I feel like Neo in The Matrix. Suddenly this whole world has opened up to me as a builder now. It’s extraordinary. Also, people will say that AI isn’t very creative. First of all, they haven’t used it very well if that’s the case. I’ve never been more creative than I am right now using AI. And listen, you should still have the human nuance to all of your communications. If anybody is following me on LinkedIn where I put all my freshest thoughts, I typically run most posts through AI. I write it first. I tell AI, “Do not change a thing unless it clearly is poorly written. I want to maintain my voice as much as possible.” And so it might change 5%, but it’s that 5% I’m like—“Ah, yep, that does sound better. That is clearer.” But it’s me, and it’s just a little bit cleaner and prevents some of those mistakes.
You know, today I gave the audience a tool that is one of the most extraordinary content title creators—that’s a custom GPT I built. Took me, I don’t know, 20 minutes to build it. And now thousands of people have used it to create extraordinary titles so that they have better videos—better content. They’re following the methodology from me. I’m giving my brain out for free. Now, a lot of people would say, “Well, that hurts your IP,” or “You’re gonna make less money.” I’m like—dude, no. Abundance mentality, man. What are you thinking? It comes back. Anybody listening to this right now—you could be creating GPTs that can help your customer base, that can help your business. They’re amazing. You just have to have imagination. And I’ve got imagination—that is what I got.
Sid Graef: You commented on stage, or you stated a prediction: your YouTube channel is more important than your website. Talk a little bit about that—and then push it into the future: what are you thinking on it?
Marcus Sheridan: This is especially true for home services because people really want to see it and they want to see you before they invite you into their home. Such a trust factor there. They want to get a sense—are you really an expert? And by seeing it on YouTube, they can believe it much more.
The thing about it is this: I keep talking to businesses that have been doing content for a long time—they’re saying to me, “I’m seeing less traffic. I’m seeing less traffic.” And it’s because of what’s happening with AI summaries, AI recommendations—all of these things. They’re just going to AI. They’re not clicking on a blue link. Over 60% of all searches on Google don’t even click on a blue link anymore. So this is why a lot of people are seeing—“I don’t understand. My rankings are good, but I’m not getting as much traffic.” Well, it’s because they’re not seeing you—because they’re getting an immediate answer. So your website’s becoming more of a bottom-of-the-funnel tool, and this is why low self-service rules are so important—because you need conversion assets to get that what’s called first-party data—the information to email the lead. You gotta get that.
But when it comes to this era that we’re in—not a single person since AI has come out has said, “You know what? Because of AI, I’m seeing less traffic on my YouTube channel.”
Sid Graef: Really?
Marcus Sheridan: Not a single person. Because what’s happening is: people are using social media and YouTube more than they ever have—that pendulum’s swinging up—as people are using Google less, using social and YouTube more.
The other part to this is—like we said today—you gotta think like a media company. A media company says, “Alright, I’m gonna shoot a video right now—maybe it’s a 10-minute video—but I’m gonna repurpose this video. This video’s gonna go on my website. It’s gonna go out in my newsletter—I have a newsletter, which you probably should. It’s gonna go out on TikTok, it’s gonna go out on Instagram, it’s gonna go out on Facebook. I might use it as an ad. It’s gonna go on YouTube—maybe short and long form.” I might use a tool like Opus Clip, which is an AI tool that quickly allows you to turn long-form into short-form video that is Instagram, Facebook Reel, and YouTube Short ready. So one video can literally be used across 10+ platforms. Now you’re just multi-purposing like a big dog. That’s so intelligent. You’re scaling out really, really fast. It’s a 10x idea versus—you know—thinking 2x, which is what—by the way, I love that book 10x Is Easier Than 2x. If you’ve never read it, you should totally read it because it’ll help you get out of the rut of “I’m gonna try to grow 10% this year.” It’s like—hmm, that’s probably not the best goal. 10x Is Easier Than 2x—man, it’s an awesome book. Benjamin Hardy.
Sid Graef: Yeah, Benjamin Hardy. A hundred percent. Also went on a mission—was a missionary.
Marcus Sheridan: Oh did he? Yeah.
Sid Graef: Okay, good. We’re already in point. Alright, I’ll back up in the story just a little bit. When—November 2022—when GPT comes out. ChatGPT was released. I started playing with it and my kids were like, “Dad, what is—why are you even—” You know, we were like, “Let Eminem rap a song about Christmas things.” But playing with it—and then immediately, January, I was like, for our conference, I’ve gotta find somebody that can teach AI to mortals so we can get ahead of this. And we searched quite a bit and didn’t find anybody, but also—like, with our conference and the people that speak—we need marketing, hiring—the basic blocking and tackling. I’m like—yeah, but this is a tidal surge. We’ve gotta find somebody. Didn’t find anybody. A year later I was introduced to a young man, Hudson, that lives here—fortunately he just lives in Tennessee. And I invited him to come speak in our mastermind. I’m like, “Just introduce yourself. You hang out all day if you want to, but you got an hour.”
He goes, “Okay, there’s a lot going on with AI, but I’m gonna do something for you live.” He said, “I prepared some of this stuff, but most of it’s fun.” He’s like, “Here’s an example.” And he goes, “I want to reach out to all the realtors—because I’m a window cleaner. I’m gonna find every realtor and tell ‘em I clean the houses that they listed.” And so he goes to Realtor.com and has a JavaScript that scrapes all their information, puts it into a piece of software that automates the message, makes a custom video for them that says their name—and sends it all out. And in the background of the video, it shows that person’s website—not the speaker, but the realtor. All—this was a year—maybe a year—
Every single one of those tools has gotten so much better since then. And everyone—I surveyed all of our masterminds a year and a half ago, we had 45 people—“Anybody use that AI?” Two people out of 45 said, “Yeah, we’re familiar.” Everybody else was like “No, no, no, no—we’re just not gonna do that. We’ll do it our way,” which is fine. He showed that video and I looked around the room to see—
Marcus Sheridan: Yeah—
Sid Graef: —open.
Marcus Sheridan: —it’s total shock. What’s interesting—you noticed today I asked everyone in the audience: “How many of you are using ChatGPT?” Almost everyone. A very high portion of the audience. And then I said, “How many of you are using ChatGPT more than Google?” And a lot of people kept their hands up. So that’s the trend line. The trend line is that we’re gonna make this shift over. What’s funny is—a lot of SEO companies will tell you it’s not gonna happen. They’re just protecting their previous business model. There’s a lot of nefarious claims out there already. I mean, I could go on about this—there was a big one online this morning: “Yeah, see, Chat’s not stealing internet traffic from Google.” It’s like—you are on drugs and you’re lying. You’re lying. And I’m just like—okay, live in a state of ignorance.
Because once again, if you’re self-aware, you’re like—“Well, am I shifting over?” Most people watching this are like, “I’m starting to shift over more and more to use some of these AI tools, AI search. I don’t really want to see all these blue links. I don’t want a bunch of sponsored ads. I would prefer the answer—a good, clean answer—sometimes.” And that’s where we’re headed.
One reason I’ve gained notoriety with AI—to your point—is I have an ability to explain things in ways that people can understand them—complex things. And that’s because I’m never trying to sound intelligent. The big mistake that communicators make—you see this with business leaders, sales—go down the list—is if they’re trying to look, sound, or appear smart—like they belong in the moment, like they belong on the stage. When you release that and you’re like, “I’m only seeking connection with my audience,” that’s all I really care about right now. Connection only occurs if I’m speaking and that person that’s watching right now says, “That’s so obvious.”
To your point—after I spoke today, you’re like “So obvious.” See, if I speak and at the end you say, “Dude, you are a genius. I don’t know how you came up with this. Man, we could never do that,” I failed—because it doesn’t seem attainable. Whereas if at the end you say, “Dude, did you hear that? This is so obvious,” I won—because you don’t feel like that’s above you. You’re like, “I can do that.” And that’s what separates the speakers that are idea people—the teachers, salespeople—who induce action in their audience.
Sid Graef: And that’s so key and fundamental. You said earlier—it’s like—we teach this; you all get it; 5% do it. Only 5% are gonna take it—even when it’s so simplified. You can take a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.
Marcus Sheridan: Yeah, and for a lot of ‘em, it’s because they’re just not experiencing enough pain. That’s fair. And that’s what’s sad. There’s this thing called the pride cycle. The way the pride cycle works—I want you to see it almost like a circle, and this circle is a journey. At the top of the circle you have prosperity. At the bottom of the circle you have pain. So what happens is: you might be in a place of prosperity; you might be in a place of pain. Let’s say you’re in pain. Because you’re in pain, you’re like, “I am tired of this pain. I’m gonna stop this. I’m disgusted. I’m gonna start doing the little things to get me out of this pain.”
So, for example, when I was almost at the point of bankruptcy, I was doing all these little things—like creating a piece of content every single day for two years. That—normally—people that are outrageously prosperous wouldn’t have done. So by doing the little things, you start to come up the circle, and you start to get momentum, and you start to build, and then you get to a place—from pain to prosperity. But because you got to prosperity—and we’re human—suddenly you might say, “I don’t need to produce that piece of content today. Maybe I don’t need to make that extra phone call. Maybe we don’t need that meeting with the team today. I think I’ll lay off the gas. I’ll start listening to the radio instead of listening to the podcast,” or whatever it is. And before you know it, you’re coming back down the circle. And lo and behold, we’re back to pain.
People have these seasons of life. Entire civilizations go through pride cycles. You’ve probably gone through pride cycles in your marriage—I have too. There’s times of prosperity; there’s times of pain. And that’s why the ones that are always in this place of “we’re hungry even though we’re prosperous,” and “we’re doing the little things even though we’re prosperous,” those are the ones that go on to do the most extraordinary things.
Sid Graef: How do you—I’ve called that—and that’s a biblical principle by the way—in the killer’s edge—it’s like, “What’s Rocky? You gotta stay hungry, Rocky—even after you’re successful.” Is there a principle or an idea or an actionable way to—how do I stay fresh and hungry? Because I got very comfortable and then I just—I slowed down. I’m like, “Holy crap, I’ve been coasting for two years.” Especially when you sell something and you have an exit—it’s easy to say, “Maybe I don’t need to do that.”
Marcus Sheridan: I’m glad you asked that, Sid, because I haven’t yet formulated my frameworks for how to stay really hungry. I would say—on a personal level—the reason why I maintain a very high standard of discipline for myself is because I don’t want God to be disappointed in me. One of these days, I’m gonna meet my Maker. In Him, I will see my life. There’s a parable in the Bible that talks about talents—burying talents and multiplying talents. And I want to feel like He gave me three talents and I turned it into nine.
One of the reasons why we see such a proliferation of mental health and depression in society today is because many people lack what I call a worthy cause. Something that invigorates their soul. When my kids go through their dips—I’ve got four kids, 25, 21, 18, 15—when they go through a dip (because everybody does), I will always say, “What’s your worthy cause right now?” And whenever they don’t have a worthy cause right now, they’re struggling. Because inactivity is the devil’s playground. That’s when we get in our own head. That’s when we get frustrated. That’s when we get out of sorts. That’s when we have a restless soul.
Now, I’m not saying that you drive yourself into the ground. Maybe your worthy cause is to be the best partner/spouse/husband/wife that you could possibly be. That’s a great worthy cause—and that’s one worthy cause that you should probably have in your life. And I actually believe we should have one worthy cause at all times—spiritually, physically, mentally, and emotionally. If we can do that, then we’re probably gonna lead a very fulfilled life—one that the world may or may not define as “successful,” but fulfillment is dramatically more important than success because success is defined by others. What’s the definition of success? Everybody changes it. What’s the definition of fulfillment? That’s individual. And you know fulfillment when you have it.
Sid Graef: When you were talking—you said, “I want to be the three-talent guy that turned it into nine.” Made me think of Jim Rohn when he said, “How tall will a tree grow? As tall as it can.”
Marcus Sheridan: As hard as the wind—yeah, as tall as it can. And only as hard as the wind blows too—because the root only goes deeper if the wind stretches it. That’s what causes the root to go deeper.
Sid Graef: Which is always—and he always likes to say, “If you’re not happy where you are, leave—because you’re not a tree.”
Marcus Sheridan: That’s true. And why is it that—it’s human nature and it’s biblical too—but like no stress, no growth. Why do—people tend to grow as tall as they can, or as big as they can, then they stop? It’s interesting. A lot of it is aligned with the law of the harvest. The law of the harvest essentially says we reap what we sow. And there’s a reason why—talking about why only 5% will do the things that I suggest—because most people would never take the time to have a garden when they have the grocery store next to them. Of course. So it’s like, “I’m just gonna go buy the thing—even if it may not be as healthy for me. I want immediate satisfaction.”
This is also why most people will spend endless amounts of money on paid ads when you could generate incredible organic leads by doing consistent—planting the field, nourishing the crop, tending to the crop—and then you can reap a harvest that is dramatically larger than anything you could ever reap with paid ads. Which—by the way—paid ads are fine, and there’s a good chance you should be doing them. But if you’re not doing the organic stuff—that, man, that is where you can create a multi–multimillion-dollar business that is built to last.
Sid Graef: That’s really cool. I’ve got—my youngest son’s in L.A. doing music. He’s been working really hard. He produced his first album. He’s got a label and they’re doing all this work. And his label—part of their contract—was “finish the album and then we’ll promote it with X stuff.” But while I was working on the second album, I said, “Did they spend to promote?” And he said, “No.” I said, “Why not?” And then the contract—he said, “Dad, this is the risk. If I pop a one-hit and I don’t have a catalog, I’m gone.” So I’ve never considered: don’t run paid ads if you don’t have a content basis to keep them. Otherwise, it’s like the sower and the seed—some seeds land on rocky soil and that’s fast—and then they die.
Marcus Sheridan: Exactly what it is. It’s like throwing a big party, spending a lot of money to invite people—and they get there and there’s no food. There’s no reason to stay.
Sid Graef: And will they come back?
Marcus Sheridan: Probably not. Probably not. They won’t stay for long. And it won’t be a second party.
Sid Graef: Well, good. Let’s land the plane. Your time’s almost up. Is there anything particular you’d like to share? If there’s not, I want to ask you a crystal ball question.
Marcus Sheridan: Just a couple things. Remember: it’s dumb not to dumb it down when you communicate. Communication is something that we do in every facet of life. The number one factor that dictates average income in the world today—they’ve done studies on this—is your ability to communicate. So as a leader, as a sales professional, as a marketer, the most important thing you can do to make high impact is learn how to communicate at a higher level. And the way you do that is you become obsessed with people that are smarter than you, and you listen to them all the time, and then you look to apply the thing. Obviously I’m passionate about this. That’s why I started a company that teaches people how to communicate at the highest of levels—because when I see someone transform the way they communicate, everything about their life gets better. Everything. So I just needed to mention that because I think it gets overlooked quite a bit.
Sid Graef: Thank you. Thanks for taking time and hanging out. And for everybody—check the show notes. All the resources are going to be in the show notes from Marcus Sheridan—follow on LinkedIn; the custom GPT and the other tools you mentioned—the one that’s releasing in a week or so?
Marcus Sheridan: AITrustSignals.com. If you go to ChatGPT and you go to Custom GPTs, do a search there and just type my name, Marcus Sheridan. I’ve got like eight that will help you in your business.
Sid Graef: Oh, that’s great. What a great resource. And your online bidding format—is that what’s on your shirt? I didn’t see.
Marcus Sheridan: Yeah. PriceGuide.ai is the estimator builder. It is—in terms of cost—the least expensive by a long shot on the market. It costs you about $20 a month. It’s unspeakably inexpensive.
Sid Graef: It’s stupid.
Marcus Sheridan: Yeah, it’s stupid. I don’t even know why it’s so cheap, but I want everybody to have it.
Sid Graef: That’s great. Thank you.
Marcus Sheridan: Thank you, brother.
Sid Graef: Alright. Hello my friend. This is Sid. Thank you again so much for taking your time to listen to today’s episode. I hope you got some value from it. And listen—anything that was covered—any of the resources, any of the books, any of the tools—anything like that—is in the show notes, so it’s easy for you to find and check out.
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