Monday Mar 30, 2026
35: The Jeffrey Scott Episode
On this episode of the Huge Transformations Podcast, host Sheila Smeltzer sits down with Jeff Scott, a second-generation window cleaner from Wisconsin and the owner behind Green Window Cleaning, Green Building Maintenance Services, and Safety Green Training. Jeff shares how he started his company from scratch in 2009 after walking away from his family’s business sale, knocking on doors with little more than basic tools and experience. From there, he built a company that now leans heavily on recurring commercial work while also becoming deeply respected for its expertise in rope access, high-rise safety, and training.
Jeff and Sheila also go deep on something that rarely gets enough attention in home services: safety as a real operating system, not just a checklist. They talk through rope descent systems, SPRAT and IRATA training, rooftop risk, job hazard analyses, documented compliance, and the difference between doing dangerous work and doing skilled work safely. At the same time, Jeff opens up about rebuilding his company after major staffing losses, creating stronger culture, empowering his team, and stepping back into growth mode after years of living more passively. It is a sharp episode for service business owners who want to think bigger, lead better, and build a company that is both profitable and professionally run.
Resources
Transcript:
Hello everyone. Welcome to the Huge Transformations podcast. I'm Sid Graef out of Montana. I'm Gabe Torres here in Nashville, Tennessee. And I'm Sheila Smeltzer from North Carolina, we are your hosts and guides through the landscape of growing a successful home service business. We do this by interviewing the best home service business builders in.
The industry folks that have already built seven and eight figure businesses and they want to help you succeed. Yep. No fake gurus on this show, just real life owners that have been in the trenches and can help show you the way to grow profitably. We get insights and truths from successful business builders, and every episode is 100% experience.
0% theory. We are going to dig deep and reveal the good, the bad, and the ugly. Our guests will share with you the pitfalls to avoid and the keys to winning. In short, our guest will show you how to transform your home service business into a masterpiece. Thanks for joining us on the wild. Journey of entrepreneurship.
Let's dive in.
Hi, I'm Sheila Smeltzer with the Huge Transformations Podcast. Thank you for joining us today. I have a really special and unique interview with Jeff Scott. Uh, Jeff and I are longtime industry friends and colleagues, and we're gonna take it a little bit different today. We're gonna go a little bit different route and we're gonna be talking about.
Yes, business. But we're also gonna be talking about high rise rope descent, rope access, safety audits, OSHA compliance, um, building JHAs residential rooftop safety. Um, but what we're gonna do is we're gonna get into Jeff Scott's head because he is a second generation window cleaner from Wisconsin. Uh, he was brought up in the high rise world, and this guy's got, um.
He's got level three spr, um, training. He's, he's a wealth of knowledge when it comes to building access and safety training, so this is super cool. This is totally my thing. I love talking about this stuff and, uh, we're gonna bring it to you here. I hope you enjoy this podcast. Stick around and join us. Hey everybody.
Welcome to the Huge Transformations podcast. I am Sheila Smeltzer. And today we have a super cool, uh, show because this is like a long time friend of mine, Jeff Scott. Hey Jeff. Hey Sheila. How you doing? I'm doing great. Uh, Jeff Scott is, uh, safety Green training. Also Green Building and maintenance services, green Building Maintenance services.
Uh, also green window cleaning, which is residential company. Mm-hmm. Um, and Jeff, you and I have known each other for probably 18, 16, 18 years. God, that seems like a long time. It's true though. Um, I think we, we met originally through the IWCA. Um, Jeff is a second generation window cleaner. Um, you started as a window cleaner and now you have your companies, I mean, you are, um.
Like when you say that you're a window cleaning professional, you have absolutely excelled in that. You've got your high rise expertise all the way down to your residential. This is gonna be a super fun conversation. Jeff, you wanna tell our audience about yourself? I can. Um, well, I'm Jeffrey. Hello everybody.
Um, hello, Jeffrey. Um, I've been a window cleaner most of my life. I have stepped away from it from time to time to do some other things. I spent a long time in sales. But, um, I was kind of a late bloomer. I started my company up in, I guess it'd be oh nine. I think I was like 37. Um, so what is that, 17 years ago?
Probably a little longer than I, or not quite as long as I've known Sheila. Yeah. Um, I think I met you Sheila through my father. Yeah. Kent. Yeah. And uh, you know, I think the first time I met you was probably in Oconomowoc. Ah. Um, at one of the window cleaner picnics that Gary Mauer used to put on. That's going way back.
Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, we were talking about timeframe, but I think that locks it into when we had met, uh, we had a mutual friend, um, at that time. Yep. Um, but, um, yeah, so that takes, that takes us back. So yeah, I started up in oh nine, um, without a dime in my pocket. Um, but I did have a lot of experience at the time.
Okay. Uh, just knocking on doors, walking up and down the street. Can I clean your windows, you know, into residential? Yep. And, um, so I mean, but your dad, and so tell me, it was Madison window cleaning, right? Right. No, no, no. He was, he was bright way window cleaning. Um, they started up in central Wisconsin.
Right when. Okay. And then, man, I think it was the late eighties, started moving down into the Madison area. Okay. Okay. Started getting on ropes slightly before then. Uh, just in the central Wisconsin area, running a, a spider stage before that. Um, but then, uh, yeah, I think it was the late eighties. They hired a salesman finally and started pushing into the Madison area into some mid-rise work.
And then, um, they sold in, I think it was oh oh eight. Okay. Um, and it was kind of a, a shock, you know, to every, it was, it was kind of a secret sale. Nobody knew about it until it happened. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah. So at that time, I didn't want to go to work for the new owners. Uh, it was bought by a company called, um, jacks Maintenance.
Okay. Uh, which was a large janitorial company outta the Fox Valley, which is basically runs from Green Bay down towards Madison. Okay. Um, and they, you know, they did the right thing. It was a goodbye for them. Um, you know, uh, Ken to my father sold very well. Um, we don't really even hear about sales of that capacity anymore, what he got for it.
Um, but um, yeah, uh, when I walked out the door, um, I had to do something. I still had a bucket of moping. The squeegee went and bought a little giant ladder. So did you go from the high-rise working with your dad to residential because of like non-compete? Uh, no, I didn't have a non-compete. Okay. Um, so why did I did that?
Because I didn't have the money to buy, you know, high-rise equipment. Okay. Um, I didn't, I didn't have a staff, you know, I couldn't go do it on my own. Um, when I started up, I basically didn't know how I was gonna, how I was gonna feed my daughter, who was five at the time. I didn't know how I was gonna, I didn't know how I was gonna pay the mortgage.
I didn't know how I was gonna make the car payments, you know? Mm-hmm. So I just kind of went back to being a little kid and knocking on doors and walking up and down the street. Love it. So, um, green window cleaning today. What's the size of green window cleaning? What's it look like? Um, well we're kind of a three-headed beast with the green building Maintenance services, green window cleaning services and safety green training.
Mm-hmm. Um, we're probably. 85% large commercial contracted work. That's all recurring revenue. Um, which leaves about, you know, 10 to 12% residential and then safety green training's really kind of a side project. Yeah, that's, what's that? That's you, that's you. I've got, um, two other trainers. Okay. All right. Um, one that, you know, my, my.
Rope access trainer. He's RET certified. He's uh, a climbing gym trainer. Um, he's, uh, a lead trainer for Boulder's Climbing Gym, which is here in Madison. And then he does like a lot of excursions out to Devil's Lake and trains people out there. So he's got a lot of aptitude. Uh, and then we also have a young woman who is our aerial lift operator trainer.
Um Okay. And does all of our in-house stuff and does some stuff like an add-on for our classes as well. But safety and green training, we keep priced as economical as possible. Um, we have to keep it sustainable, but that's really how we give back to the industry. Love that. I love that. Um, so do you have, just like from business structure standpoint, you, it is like one company, but these are three different business units?
Yes. Right now it's, it's still, you know, we were, we've, we've dropped into one LLC, um Okay. And everything. The other two are DBAs. Okay. Um, we are separating our CRMs at this point. Um, but, um, we'll see what happens, you know? Um, we're keeping it all. Safety green will get broken off here in the near future as, 'cause everything else is getting so much bigger.
Mm-hmm. Um, so, you know, I'm probably looking at a company sale within the next, if, if I'm, if I still own it four years from now, I'd be surprised. Okay. Yeah. Very good. So I'm assuming that's what's kind of brought you back into the huge community and being in the huge mastermind. Yeah. Yeah. I was living, you know, I'm 52 years old.
Okay. Um, I've been living passively off the company since I was about 45. Um, and, uh, we talked about this before we got on, but I was spending a lot of time at my place out in Breckenridge, Colorado. Mm-hmm. Um, and staying out there November through April and just snowboarding, um, my ass off. I was getting 50 to 60 days in a year religiously chasing storms all powder days.
Um, but then, you know, networking with people that we both know, I won't drop their names on here, but, um, they're like, Jeff, what are you doing? Look at what you have. Like, everybody's coming to you for information. Why aren't you doing this? You could scale this, you know, beyond what you could ever dream of, which is true.
Which is true. So, you know, finally one of those slaps in the face got to me. Yeah. And I started taking a look at it, and then I'm like, you know, what am I doing out here playing in the snow when I could, you know, if I spend another, you know, five years, um, dedicating to this, it turns into something absolutely life changing beyond what I ever dreamed it could be.
I love that. Yeah, I love that. Um, so yeah, just, uh, we've definitely got the Breckenridge thing in common as well. Um, yeah, I was a Bret girl for six years back before I did any of this. Um, and so were you dog teams or something? If I remember right. Yeah. Yeah. I was a back country tour guide. Yep. Tours, dog sled tours, snowmobile tours.
That was my outdoor tour. Sleigh rides and that stuff. Fricking loved it, loved every minute of it. And Jeff and I actually connected at Wolf Creek Pass. We went snowboarding like five or six years ago. So yeah, we've, we've had some fun times together, that's for sure. Um, so. You're now, so you went on your big high country life excursion for five years, and now you're back in, um, Wisconsin.
And what are you doing, like, what's your day-to-day look like right now? Um, I'm kind of a, you know, I'm probably in the office between seven and 8:00 AM most mornings. Um, I'm here 90% of the time. Um, I'm usually outta here by three or four o'clock. Mm-hmm. In the afternoon. Um, but um, right now it's, um, doing a lot of the top end stuff.
Uh, we had our busiest off season ever carried more admin staff through the off season than I ever have. Uh, really realigning our tech stacks. Um, getting a lot of systems in place, setting the org chart up properly. Um, looking at moving some people around that we're in the process of now. Um, taking my office manager, turning her into a vp.
My CSRs moving into a general. Manager style role, um, got a customer's relations person, um, been building a sales program. You know, believe it or not, we've gotten to where we are without a dedicated sales program, um, without really even marketing at all. Um, it's just been a lot of word of mouth working our way through property manager groups, relationship building the old fashioned way.
So, you know, we're really excited because we've got some growth ahead of us. Yeah. It sounds to me like you're, you're recreating your operating system pretty much. Um, we had, we were doing pretty well. We were systemized fairly well. Mm-hmm. But we bottlenecked, um, you know, we, um, so through COVID was a really hard time for us, just keeping everybody busy, right?
Mm-hmm. Uh, borrowing from Peter to pay Paul, um, large projects would get moved off. We'd have to find other things to do, and we managed to hold our staff. Entire staff and keep 'em busy through COVID. However, uh, within a year after COVID, because of a whirlwind of storms, um, we lost everybody. Hmm. Um, I got my admin team, but I didn't have a single operational person.
Mm-hmm. So, and that was one of the, the highest stressors I had. Um, I had to jump back in the field, be hands-on again. You know, which I had already. It was hard to transition out of that. Transition back in was hard to find passion for it. Mm-hmm. And grow, grow as a leader at the same time, um, was really hard.
But there were a lot of blessings in disguise, um, because we were able to build a staff in a much better way. Mm-hmm. Um, right now our company culture is probably our strongest asset. It's absolutely beautiful. Um, it's really, we've really built a family here. Um, you know, it's, um, everybody knows each other's families.
Everybody's hanging out together, doing things, you know, off work, hours together. Um, it's super supportive. I love that. You know, how many entrepreneurs I talked to, myself included, that get to a point where we have to break down to build back up. Yeah. Um, I think this is really common, more common than what people think.
Um. I mean, I, I'm even hearing it from people who are new in the industry, just, you know, first, second year and they kind of grew too fast and like, oh my God, wait, we gotta, we have to restructure. And, um, and I think this is, this is really common and it sounds like. The way that you're doing and, and you do, right?
Like your, your business has all of the different roles from the admin to the finance, to the operations, sales, marketing, and we have to, it's all about right people, right seats, getting the right people in there and alignment with the culture, your core values. Mm-hmm. And sounds like that's, that's what you're, what you're doing right now, and you are definitely a visionary, um, because you have so much industry experience and.
Obviously long time tenure in your market and things like that. So you, and then you're kind of seeing the golden nugget at the end, right? Uh, yeah. Well, that's what I'm looking for, but I'm torn, you know, it's, it's not a control thing anymore 'cause I've given that up. Um, you know, I've, I've empowered other people to take that.
Very good. Um, but the, the hard part is if I walk away, what happens? You know, what happens to my team? What happens to my staff? Um, is, would new ownership come in and support them in the same way as they're being supported now? Mm-hmm. Would they be able to continue to show them career paths and growth and, and mentor them the way that, you know, that's been happening?
That's real. Um, yeah. You know, and so that's, that's what makes me hesitate. So for me, if and when I sell, and, you know, that is the plan currently. Um. It's more about the dollar, it's more than about the dollar. Mm-hmm. Um, now it really, I wanna be able to do it in a way where the culture's maintained. Yeah.
Because, you know, a rising, a rising ship, a rising tide does raise all ships and, um, you know, I see so many, you know, private equity firms come in and pretty much got a company. Yeah. You know, ownership walks away, they, they lose the culture. Um, you know, you, you see a lot of wrong hats in the, you know, or, or the right hats in the wrong seats and vice versa.
Yeah. Um, a lot of our competition's been bought up by private equity, you know, in the Milwaukee and Madison markets and, um, thankfully we've thrived through it, you know, um, but um, I don't wanna see that happen to us. Yeah. And the longer that we are in our business, you and I have pretty much been in business the same amount of time.
I'm, I'm 26 years now. And you're right about the same place, right? No, not quite so much. I think you've been in business. Yeah. I think we started in oh 8, 0 9. So what is that? 17 years ago? Okay. Well you definitely have that much experience though. Um, well, yeah. 35 years plus just in high. There you go. Yeah.
So, um, but yeah, I mean, it does, it becomes our life. Um, and there there is something about the legacy of what we've created that we really, genuinely care about. And the people are such a huge part of it. Um, I'm with you a hundred percent on that, so, but kudos to you because, you know, there isn't just one way.
Like I believe in the dream. I believe that. Owners like yourself and myself that have been so invested for so many years into a company and bootstrapped it and built it, um, based on our experience and industry involvement and things like that. Um, I, I think that there's, I think that we can really create any outcome that we want and we can be different.
I agree. You know, um, I'm in a, I wish I had a succession plan more similar to yours. You know, we're your daughters, I, I believe, are moving in and kind of gonna take things and run with them down the road. Um, my daughter really wants no, nothing to do with this whatsoever. You know, she, she grew up and, and saw the stress, which I probably didn't handle as well back then.
You know, we all grow. Um, and, uh, just wants nothing to do with it. Um, it's created a lot of the freedom that I've had to be able to travel with her and, you know, see the world, see the country, um, and do all the things that we've done. Um, but, uh, I'm proud of her for what she's doing, so I've gotta respect that.
Good. Yeah. As you should. And you know, the key word that you said is want. Mm-hmm. Like kids, the kids are never going to do it if they don't want it. Um, one thing my daughter said recently is she said, mom, my, I have, I have orange and blue blood flowing through my body. I'm like, holy crap. All right. She's for real here.
Um, but, uh, yeah, so. I kind of wanna divert because Jeff, you have something very unique that we can talk about. Um, that's a little bit different from most podcasts we do here at the huge, and that is in regard to safety, um, and honestly professionalism in the industry. Um, so will you talk a little bit about, uh, uh, safety green training and.
What that looks like and like the certifications that you've held and all the training that you've done, because this is really important. Um, you know, I could go back to like oh eight when I started training, um, well earlier than that in the IWCA days, but, um, it really probably started back in the late eighties.
Um, you know, as a young man still in high school. Um, we were doing some crazy stuff, you know, on road. Like what? Well, stuff that scares me to think about now. Okay. We didn't, we didn't know what an anchor was, you know, until, right. You know, a decade ago, right? Yep. Um, we were still in seat harnesses. Um, a lot of times we're on one line.
Um, we're using descent devices that are very rudimentary now. We were tying off to things that makes my heart murmur now. Right. You know, um, you know, back then there were deaths in the industry almost monthly. Um, and, uh, growing up through the IWCA because of, of Kent, my father mm-hmm. Um, I've always been really well networked and if I didn't know people personally, I usually knew something about their families or their companies and, and all these deaths and injuries really affected me personally.
Uh, they put a lot of fear in the back of my mind. One, when's it gonna be my turn? 'cause I knew the risks we were taking. I knew that we were doing stupid shit. Or when is it for my coworkers? Mm-hmm. Um, and so I just kinda lived a life of fear. Um, and the back then, you know, it wasn't even bravery, it was ignorance.
Mm-hmm. You know? Um, you didn't know what you didn't know. We didn't, but we're still scared all the time because you didn't know how to be safe either. Right. Um, so then in the late nineties, I think it was 97, 98, something like that, um, we went to, my dad and I went to the very first SPRAT training session that existed.
Um, will you enlighten our, uh, audience on what sprat is? I'm sorry. Uh, RA is Society of Professional Access Technicians. Okay. Um, it's, um, probably it in ida, the, um. Industrial Rope access trade Association, um, are probably the two leading bodies in rope work in the world. Mm-hmm. Um, Ida is more international, spreads more North American, but spreading very international quickly.
Um, and this is, this is rope access for all different applications, not just window cleaning. I mean, we're talking windmills. We're talking, there's actually very few window cleaners that hold SPR certifications by percentage, uh, and fewer yet that are like spra SPR threes. And there's exceedingly few companies that run actual, um, industrial rope access programs with level threes on board that are documented properly.
Mm-hmm. Um, and they're set up properly. Is that, so just question, and again, I, I really want the audience to understand what we're talking about, but is that because as a window cleaner, we're just descending, coming straight down? Um, not well, so since like 2018. Um, OSHA now recognizes two types of, of rope access, uh, rope descent systems.
Mm-hmm. Which most window cleaners, um, understand and utilize if they're certified or not. Mm-hmm. Um, which is, uh, you're limited at 300 feet. With authorized user training for rope descent systems and you are required to use engineered certified anchor points, right, that have to be properly certified and documented.
Mm-hmm. Um, so that's required to do most window cleaning. Compliantly. Um, if you want to go over 300 feet or attached to anything other than a certified anchor point, then you need a full on industrial rope access team. Now, industrial rope access is what OSHA uses as a term. Um, but once you have a full team, and that could be through an organization like IA or sprat or if you want to use the an CZ 3 59 document, you could do an in-house program if you wanna keep reinventing the wheel, we choose to take on the Sprat model.
Mm-hmm. Um, so all of our people are, are certified. Um. But then you can go to the moon and you, you're no longer required to use engineer certified anchor points. Um, you still have to go through a lot of the same documentation, uh, but as a sprat three, um, you can do that. Uh, you are a qualified person. You can go in and do the if, if necessary.
Uh, an engineer doesn't necessarily have to pull test something. They can make a determination. Um, it gets pulled, tested if it's in question. Same thing for a Sprat team. Um, so we can go to the moon and we can go to the ground without things that, you know, may or may not have anchor points. Um, it also, it, there is a lot higher level of training to become, um, have to have a spprt team.
Um, where RDS, which, you know, I do documented authorized user training, uh, for RDS teams within Safety Green, um, you just need training by a qualified person that has to check all the OSHA boxes, right? Right. And then you become an authorized user. So even as an authorized user, you still have to be under the supervision of a competent person.
Well, within RDS, the employer can appoint the competent person, um, based off of their own criteria. Uh, the whole program needs to be set up by a qualified person, and the OSHA definition is very bad. So basically, if you have, you know, the right competence, confidence, skill sets, you know, um, and understand what you're doing, you can deem yourself a qualified person.
So guidelines are very loose for RDS, right? As long as you're documenting things properly, you can pretty much get into an RDS program. Um, where industrial rope access, such as sprat, is much more stringent to get into. Um, where instead of just getting authorized user training, you actually have competency tests, um, competency skill sets that have to be passed.
Um, those tests are given by independent evaluators, appointed by Sprat, not the training companies. So the training companies, um, are basically getting evaluated as well. That keeps their standard very high. Uh, once you become, um, a level one sprat tech, you have to docu. Well, for Sprat you have to document 500 hours.
For rat it's a thousand. Um, and then within three years, you have to either recertify at the level you're at, go up a level, or wash out and start over. So then the same thing happens at level two To get to level three, it takes most people about nine years to become a level three, and you cannot have a compliant industrial rope access program without at least one level three on staff.
Okay. Technically, you can't even log hours unless you're under a level three. So what level have you achieved in your career? I'm level three currently. Okay. Yeah. Um, that's awesome. So, um, what would a, what would a train the train, well, let me ask you this question first. I've kind of always wanted to know this.
How many buildings in the United States are over 300 feet? Oh, a lot. Lot depends on metro. Yeah, it depends on the metro. Um, okay. But at Madison, none because everything's limited by the capital. Right. So this is all mid-rise. It's all like 13 stories down. Okay. But you get into, you get in, even in the state of Wisconsin, I think there's two or three now, not a lot, but you get into Chicago and there's more than you can count.
You get into Nashville, there's more than you can count. You know, Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburgh. Um, all the major me metros, you know? Yeah. You know, 50% of the buildings are over 300 feet. Mm-hmm. You know, so if, if an, if a certified rope access company was to go into a metro and wouldn't have to throw other companies under the bus, but just start educating property managers and building owners on their own liabilities.
Mm-hmm. Um, it'd be pretty easy to walk through and take some work, wouldn't it? You know, and since what, 2018? I think the same date, maybe 2016. OSHA has the multi-employer citation policy, which defines, I believe it's five different definitions for employer. Um, the us the contractor coming on site falls under three of those definitions.
The property manager or building owner, because they're hiring us, we're their employee. Um, they fall under three of those definitions and they overlap. And that's what OSHA uses to now not only cite the contractors, but cite the buildings and property owners as well. Hmm. You know, so you go in, you go into these property manager groups, you know, sit down at a boardroom table, put up the PowerPoint and show them what all their liabilities are, and then come through and show them how you're going to mitigate those liabilities.
Head start to turn. Yeah. And hence all the anchor companies start popping up everywhere. Right. Uh, well, anchor companies are needed for 300 feet and down. Yep. Um, well, for, so you can do, utilize RDS. Right? And don't get me wrong, even as, you know, uh, even as a sprat company, um, we like anchor points. Mm-hmm.
But, you know, we don't have to use them like we can. There's a market force without them as well. Yeah. Um, and what designates. A certified anchor point. What, what, what does the anchor point have to have to be certified? Well, so it has to be certified by an engineer. Um, they're manufactured for 5,000 foot pounds of resistance.
Mm-hmm. To take a shock load four time with a four time multiplier. Mm-hmm. Um, they have to be. Either deemed capable of doing that, or they have to be pull tested to half their working load limit, which is 2,500 foot pounds. Right. Um, those are usually installed. There are anchor companies that that's, that's all they do.
But most of them will then either sub or, you know, work with engineers that have to stamp those off. Um, and that's state by state by the definition. Um, some states it can, it has to be a certified structural engineer. Oh, I think I just lost you. Did I lose you? I'm here. You're here. Let me bring you back up.
Do you hear me? Yeah. For some reason. Oh, there you're, I just lost my screen. Sorry. That's okay. Um, you know, so the definition that, uh, needs to be utilized as state by state, uh, if that can just be a standard engineer, has to be a certified structural engineer in different states. It, it's, there's different requirements to reach that status.
Okay. You know, but we don't only train window cleaners. We train all the trades. Uh, we do a lot of work with structural engineers now that are doing facade inspections. Um, we do a lot of work with, um, high steel workers, electricians. I've trained plumbers to repel into elevator shafts to do plumbing work.
Um, cockers, glazer tuck pointers, you know anybody that's working at height. Yeah. Well, I know the whole building envelope, maintenance industry is becoming really big and a lot of large companies across the United States are using window cleaning to get in the door. Um, so that they can sell a multitude of other building services for the facade.
And, um, that's why we spun off Green Building Maintenance Services, you know, 'cause we're out there with our eyes on it. But, you know, when you're, we're the ones that are gonna find all this damage or the things that need to happen, so then become the expert and then either you're doing the work or bringing in people or taking a piece, you know, it's, yeah, it is, it is a window because window cleaning is the maintenance work that's, you know, repetitive that has to happen.
Yeah. So cool. Um, that was loud. Did you hear that? The theme, the, the ding? Yeah. Yeah, that's now I think that's why I lost the screen. My phone is connected to my computer. Someone messages come through at like, wipes off. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so. Wow. Okay. Um, now that was a lot of information in like three minutes, wasn't it?
You know, it's so important though because, um, with window cleaning, and, I mean, this applies to pressure washing too. Everything we're talking about, we're talking about access, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, and. You know, a, I think a lot of the listeners are doing primarily residential, maybe mid-rise, um, lift work, things like that.
Mm-hmm. But this is, this is a whole nother level and I think the understanding and what you're telling us about, and understanding the knowledge and expertise and training that goes into breaking into that level of services, um, you know. It's, it's a highly skilled thing. Um, and then of course, the accountability, the, like you said, the documentation, having, you know, bonafide programs, training to make sure that you are compliant, right?
Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, this is, this is really good information for our listeners and kind of like a breakthrough in my opinion, um, for a lot of people that are listening and really thank you for that. Um. So let's, can we kinda, um, I wanna kind of just dumb down a little bit. And I do wanna talk about safety for the typical listener that's talking that's here listening to us.
Um, what would a safety program look like in, or what does a safety program look like in, um, green window cleaning that does a lot of residential work. Uh, on our res, well, our residential side really does kind of mirror our high-rise side. I mean, you've got all the same things in place. Um, like what? Well, you've gotta have documented training.
Right, right. Uh, the boxes have to be checked. They have to be signed off on. Um, uh, competency has to be the, the supervision has to be there. Um, a JHA job, hazard analysis has to be done on every project regardless of how small, um, you know, power lines and things like that are super dangerous around residential homes.
Um, yep. Residential rooftops are much more dangerous than what we do on rope out in the big world, you know? Um, agreed. I know. So like, yes, there's a lot of rope accidents. I'm familiar with them because of what we do, but there's a lot more people falling off of residential roofs. And I've got several very close friends that their lives have been changed, um, because they've come off roofs and, um, you know, most residential roofs don't have anchor systems.
Um, there's not a thing that you can just tie off to and say, that's solid, that's bond proof, you know, I'm good. Um, so. Ba, you know, the big thing was gutter cleaning. There's so many companies that are still walking gutter lines with a leaf blower, you know, because it's, it's economical. Yep. You know, until they have an accident.
Um, but, uh, we've got a, you know, we don't get off the ladder. Um, you know, we use a pole and pull everything towards us. Uh, water poles have really changed the game. You know, you can reach dormers and things like that with the water fed pole nowadays. Um, yep. You know, most of my career and, you know, um, probably part of your career, waterfront poles didn't exist, you know?
Yeah. So you ladders and getting on rooftops and doing crazy stuff. Um, but, you know, uh, then there's anything that's below, I don't even remember what it is off the top of my head. It's like a, a four 12 pitch maybe. Yep. Anything below that, you, you know, you basically have a leading edge that you wanna stay away from by a company.
Policy for us is 10 feet. Yeah, I think it's, yep. Six feet. Yep. Yeah, for us it's 10. Okay. Um, but, um, anything that's steeper than that, you need to be in fall restraint. Yep. You know, not fall arrest, but fall restraints. Uh, I believe, which, you know, I don't, I'm a business owner. Which difference? Yes. Well, fall restraint.
So fall arrest requires that 5,000 pound anchor. Right. And something that can withstand that. Uh, fall restraint, I believe code is 350 foot pounds. Uh, the same as a railing, right? Mm-hmm. Um, something that you can lean against but not get over the leading edge. Fall arrest saves you once you've taken a fall, stops your shock load, fall restraint prevents you from getting into the fall situation.
That's right. Yep. Yep. Um, so you know what we do? We do a lot of, because we have the equipment and you know, my, a lot of my people are around this all the time. We, we throw ropes over stuff when we can. You know, we're tying to deck posts and trees and trucks and lifts and, and things like that. Um, in this area, because we're pretty far north, um, people don't like you, you know, putting roofers into their roofs because of penetration, right?
And, and leaking and things like that. It, it's a really tough sell. Um, but, um, you know, there are jobs that we will turn down. There's a lot of low hanging fruit out there where you don't have to put yourself in precarious situations. We're not the contractor for everybody. Um, so, you know, it's something that we can't accomplish safely and compliantly.
We don't do it. Um, and we, we are compliant across the board because, you know, we're safety green training as well. So we're out there, we're on the social media. My people are taking pictures. People know who we are and so we're always under the microscope. Um, if I can, I wanna share how we approach it at a plus PRO Services, and that's, um, so.
If there is root. If there is work above or on a roof. On a roof. So meaning we have to access a, let's face it, the equipment that we have available today with soft washing and the power wash equipment and the water we can throw and everything like we have, like we are poised very well to be safe. Right?
Yeah. Our, like we talked about, that stuff comes up, but these houses and the way they're designed and the way architects design 'em, they put very little. Effort into thinking about long-term maintenance and how you're gonna get to these things safely by, 'cause we're really talking about OSHA 1910 walking, working surfaces, right?
Mm-hmm. So, um, if there's roof, if, I'm sorry, if there's work on that, we have to access the roof. Basically what we do is bing, that's a trigger that now there needs to be a safety work plan in place. A JHA, which is a job hazard analysis, and that work that requires getting on the roof is now a separate line item on the quote with those other components at a charged a, a specific charge rate.
Because now there's, you know, roof rigging involved specialized equipment, and you have to have competent people. And so that gives our client the option to opt in, pay for that service. Right, which is specialized for opt out. So maybe it's not cleaning a widow's peak on the top of a three story beach house or maybe it's not right.
So that is one way that, that we've tried to work around. Um, 'cause and you're right, if it's dangerous, we definitely wanna walk away. We don't wanna walk away. That doesn't mean you can't do the rest of the home. That's right. Right. You just can't do that piece. That's, and that's, that's kind of how I've carved it out at, at our company.
Um, and, you know, and with that, so like going back to the training program, uh, company like ours or our listeners, where are they finding all, all of the safety training to be able to have the documented program? What do you recommend? Well, there's lots of, um, organizations out there. Um, you know, you're very, um, in depth with the IWCA.
They've got a, a great residential rooftop flooring program. Um, we've seen enough of it, you know, um, to know that it's quality and it can be utilized. Um, yeah. Um, you know, thanks, thanks for bringing that up. Because like the, the IWCA, the PW and a, um, those two organizations focus really heavily on safety and so.
Really, when you are members of these organizations, then you have access to the safety training. And it's a, it's a program that you can implement into the company and provide the documentation and the ongoing safety training. Um, so that you're compliant. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You know, and it really comes down to, you know, understanding the OSHA standards.
Um, you can use those as guidelines, understanding the, the ANSI standards. You can use those as guidelines. Um. For the most part, OSHA doesn't really create rules. Um, they cite a lot of ANSI standards, American National Standards Institute, um, and uh, OSHA is not law. OSHA is the minimum standard of safety.
So as long as you're documenting properly, um, and you're working above that standard, you can really do what you will. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, um, if you're not documented in OSHA's eyes, it didn't happen. You know, so when you have your toolbox talks, when you have your monthly, quarterly, weekly safety meetings, whatever you're doing, um, that all needs to be documented.
You know, write an outline, check the boxes, have people sign up on 'em. Yeah. Um, and you need to make sure supervision is in place. Yep. And there's a lot of automations, um, out there, uh, programs, uh, software systems and things like that that you can implement to be able to kind of automate this process. Um, that includes like safety training videos and things like that.
Um, so like many of us are familiar with Safety Advocate, Mike Draper's product, um, you see a lot of that in, in both the IWCA and the PWA. Um, and he, he's done a great job at making it, um, easy to implement into companies. Yeah. But like, could a company come to you and say, Hey Jeff, can you come in and train my people?
Um, they could, um, you know, you have to fill the role as a qualified person. But I'm typically going, I'm not going to embrace, um, a lot of residential ladder rooftop training, stuff like that. Yeah. Um, my hands are super full in the rope world. Yeah. Um, I train, uh, you know, a lot of companies with and without, within and without window cleaning.
Probably more, you know, even outside of window cleaning now. Okay. Um, do a lot of rigging, consulting, rescue, standby, um, writing up work plans, um, putting use plans together. Um, going through and helping them price out access things. Um, I do a lot of fall arrest, um, anchor system consulting, um, things like that.
I work with a lot of engineering companies. Um, we're, we'll actually be out in Pittsburgh this summer doing the stadiums, doing a lot of facade work and inspections. Um, nice window cleaning's, just, um, it's a gateway, right? Yeah. Yeah. To get you into all these other things. But we, um, you know. Safety Green's wheelhouse is really, um, rope descent systems and industrial rope access swing stage.
Um, more in the, um, in the highrise world. Mid-rise, high-rise, world, high access. It's, you know, um, while we, while Green Window cleaning services operates in the residential world and we understand safety, so it's easy for us, um, you know, we are not, we're not the the residential trainer. Yep. Okay. That's not something we embraced.
Okay. Well, um, just to, you know, again, this is so incredibly valuable. Um, I hope our listeners think it's as valuable as I do. Um, but back to the business. Um, share with us a couple things that you're going through, um, that are, are difficult right now with what you're trying to do. Um, you know, we've just overcome some things that.
It seems like in every, not catastrophe but challenge, there's always that silver lining that we hear about, you know, becomes a blessing after the fact. Um, you know, a few years back we lost a very major client, um, which was devastating for us. Um, however. And, you know, it's, it's like they say it's not how many times, you know, you fall down, it's how many times you get up.
So, you know, while we were getting up and dusting off, we learned to diversify in a better way. Um, really, really, um, uh, foster relationships, but at, but at the same time, not let, like one relationship hold too much power over us. Um, you know, so just learning how to run a business and not putting all your eggs in one basket.
Has, has been a huge lesson, um, losing all of our clients or losing all of our operational staff after COVID, you know, and being able to redesign and, uh, hire in a better way and create a better culture, um, has been amazing. Um, team building, you know, is empowering other people. Um. Coming up as a window cleaner, I was out there trying to be the lead technician and do everything myself and, and push from the front.
Um, and while that's very gratifying, it's also very limiting, right? Yeah. Uh, so learning to empower other people, set up the systems, set up the programs, um, so that you can step away and actually scale the thing. Um, you know, it diversifying allowed us to, you know, hit that seven figure mark. Uh, we put on like we, after that kick in, you know.
That, that kick, we, um, we, we put on 20% hit seven figures, but we didn't stop there. You know, it's, we did three years after that with 20% each year. Nice. Um, up to now, which, um, really showed us that we do have something scalable, sustainable here. You know, that, um, any one person can be taken outta the equation, including myself.
Um, and it's gonna, it's gonna survive. It's gonna thrive. Love that, create the machine, you know, that's, that's gonna do that. So there's been a lot of challenges, um, and, and they're ongoing. And the biggest challenge is personal growth. You know, always becoming a better person and, um, learning how to deal with people in a better way and, and mentor people and, and show them career paths.
And, um, your company can't evolve until you do. You know, so you gotta put in the work, you gotta do it. Um, we were, we were fortunate. We had our, um, we're, we're a seasonal company. Um, you know, we're about eight and a half months a year, you know, so we've gotta make our knot in a lot, in a, in a short period of time.
But we had our big onboarding meeting. Um, just a few weeks ago for the season, which, you know, I think it was March 1st or shortly after, and we did, um, a whole program on emotional iq, you know, with for a bunch of blue collar people. And we thought when we put this together, we were like, man, you know, this is gonna be over their heads.
They're not gonna be interested. Um, but we had a few hard dynamics on a couple of teams that we wanted to address. So the whole team got, uh, an emotional IQ tra, um, program. And afterwards they were so receptive. It was amazing. It's like told us this is some high level stuff. And for us to be on a team where this hits home, you know, feels really good.
It's really gratifying to the point where afterwards they want emotional IQ stickers for their helmets, you know, and they want cars every time, so, you know, they achieve something. Um, I love that. Yeah. So it's, it's uh, it's been fun, you know, there's been a lot of challenges and you overcome them. Ne grow, uh, life is what happens outside of our comfort zone, you know?
Um, yeah, anxiety and turn it into excitement. 'cause your world's gonna expand 100%, man. Um, so to. Joining the huge mastermind. What, what have you, I know you're pretty new. I think you came on back in the fall of last year. Mm-hmm. Um, so what, what have you gotten out of it? Oh, so much, so much so quickly. Um, you know, whenever you get into a room of people, um, who have a lot more to offer than you do, um.
And everybody does in one way or another. Um, you learn quickly. And you know, within the mastermind group there's many, many different types of companies. Um, mostly service companies. Yeah. Um, many, many different types. And. When you hear about everybody else's trials and tribulations and how they've overcome them, um, one, it puts you, it, it is Rader to begin with because you realize you're not doing this alone.
These aren't, you're not the only one going through challenges and most of them are fairly universal. Um. And when you're able to give of yourself and then be open enough to receive, um, there's things you can bring back that are revolutionary. Mm-hmm. You know, as far as systems or even just access to people, uh, you know, finding the who not the how.
Right? Yeah. Yeah. And, um, the books, even just coming home with the books and reading the books has been mind blowing and evolutionary and, and it's been a lot of growth and, you know, um, dedicating to doing the work and, um. You know, finding people within your own company and empowering them with the tools to do what they need so that you can, you know, keep being the visionary.
Um, yeah, I, I could not do this without integrators. I've got, you know, I've got four admin staff that blow my mind every day, um, of what they're able to accomplish. And, um, you know, at the same time, their minds work a little differently. They don't always have the vision. Um, but, um, when we all get together as a team, it's mind blowing.
Things happen. Okay. Yeah. That's, that's the ideal relationship right there. Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, the people involved, every single person is amazing. Yeah. Um, just the fact that they're there shows how much they wanna succeed, um, how much they wanna learn and willing to give and learn. And it's, it's, uh, it's been super cool.
I wouldn't give it up. Awesome. I love to hear that. Well, I was super stoked when I saw you. I mean, we were in the room together, uh, in Nashville and we've known each other so long, and it wasn't until lunchtime that I even noticed they were there. I was like, whoa, Jeff, what are you doing here? Um, so that was really cool for me.
And that's like a full circle thing. I love seeing other people that, you know, have been invested in the industry for so long, um, getting involved in. That's, that's, it's just awesome. So this has been such a really unique and enlightening conversation today. Um, I hope you know how much I want you to know how much your experience and knowledge, um.
It really will propel a lot of thought by people listening today. Um, and really, and the safety is such a huge thing, and I know that's just a portion of what we talked about, but it's something that's not talked about enough. Um, and so, you know, I just really applaud you for everything that you've accomplished and how much knowledge that you've gained in your career and you're helping other companies.
Be safe and, um, and, you know, succeeding in your own company and doing all the cool things and, and, you know, cultivating cool culture, great people. So kudos to you, Jeff. Well, thank you. You know, in my mind, I think it's a bit selfish of me, um, being able to give back to the industry. Like, this is what allows me to sleep at night.
Mm-hmm. And, you know, because I've led a life on rope and at heights. Um. You know, every so often I wake up with nightmares where I jump like I'm falling, right? Mm-hmm. And that typically happens when I take time off from giving back to the industry through training and other consulting and other avenues.
And so I think, you know, that's, it's how I selfishly sleep at night. You know, and then for and for fun, you know, I don't feel anxiety when I am doing these crazy things anymore. Well, things that appear crazy because I understand how safe they can be. So by training, I can, I can thrive and live through all these new people's anxiety as they're learning, you know?
Yeah. So it's, um, it's, it's, it's gratifying and I think I get way more than I give. Have you been given a copy of the Go-Giver? Book, not only have I been given a coffee, a copy, um, Uhhuh we did in our weekly, um, admin meetings. We went through it chapter by chapter. Um, freaking love that. We went through that and used it for staff training.
Um, uh, we've used other books like, um, Jocko Willings Extreme Ownership Series. Um, I used, uh, some of that for the admin staff. Then there's like the, uh, I think the third one is like the operations manual, um, for extreme ownership. I went, used my whole leadership team and we went through that whole thing, applied it to life and applied it to the company, you know, chapter by chapter every week.
Uh, there's been a few other things, but yeah. But, uh, yeah, the Go-Giver ISS great. I actually bought the whole series of them. I mean, the one that you, you walked home with is just the beginning. Yeah. Yeah, it's, uh, pretty awesome. I gave a copy to everybody in my company for Christmas. Um, it's really become really the basis of our core values in the company and really our culture.
So, um, it's, you know, it's, it changing, like we've had to do a lot of overhaul in the company. So, but that really gave us the, the story. To be able to base who we wanted to be and to start implementing that. So yeah, kudos to you, man. I fricking love it. Yeah, kudos to you. You're running a hell of an operation yourself.
Yeah. You're giving back to the industry as much as anybody with your involvement. Yeah. Well, it's, you know, I love it. It's in my heart and it's given a lot to me. Mm-hmm. Um, and it's for the same reason as you. I, I wanna, I wanna see people succeed as professionals in this industry. My dad always said, it's not what you do, it's how you do it.
And, um, so yeah, we're window cleaners, we do soft washing, power washing, all that sort of thing. But it's like, yeah, we wanna be, we wanna be recognized as professionals. Um. Yeah. So, and, and I wanna see that for everybody. And so this, without a doubt, this conversation will help that it will, because people listening are like, wow, there is really a lot, there's a lot to know and a lot to excel to.
Um, so, you know, I'd like to put myself out there. Um. Like I said, uh, we, I, for us, safety Green is how we give back to the industry. It's not a revenue, uh, center for us. Um, so if you want advice, you know, reach out, give us a call, you know, um. It's, uh, unless I've gotta travel outta town or something, we're usually just giving you the advice.
You know, we're not, we're not charging you for anything. We can set you up with, uh, compliance packages and a lot of things that can outline everything you need just free of charge. Um, you know, we, we, we've created it, we use it. Uh, for us it's more about keeping the industry safe than, you know, creating any kind of a revenue from it.
Um, so if it's going to send yourself and your, your, your workers. Home safely every night. Um, we'd like to be able to contribute to that. Awesome. Well, we are at the end of our time, but like I said, so much gratitude for what you've shared with us today and, um, everybody knows how to find Jeff. And, um, thank you for being part of the huge community.
Jeff. Hey, it's privilege. Yeah, you've definitely, um, you, you coming in and being a part is, uh, so beneficial to really the entire industry, but to the huge community as well. So kudos to you. Thank you so much for a wonderful conversation. And, um, you know, we'll be seeing you soon. I hope so. Okay. All right.
Thanks everybody. Hello my friend. This is Sid. Thank you again so much for taking your time to listen to today's episode. I hope you got some value from it. And listen, anything that was covered, uh, any of the resources, any of the books, any of the tools, anything like that is in the show notes, so it's easy for you to find and check it out.
And also, I wanna let you know the. Mission for the huge convention and for this podcast is to help our blue collar business owners like you and I, to gain financial and time freedom through running a better business. And we do that in four ways. Number one is our free weekly newsletter. It's called a Huge Insider.
I hope you subscribe. It is the most valuable newsletter for the home service industry. Period, paid or otherwise, and this one's free. Next is the huge foundation's education platform. That is, we've got over 120 hours of industry specific education and resources for you. And every month we do, uh, a topical webinar and we do question and answer with seven and eight figure business owners.
And it's available to you for a $1 trial for seven days. Next, of course, is the huge convention or the huge convention. If you haven't been, you gotta check it out. It's every August this year it's in Nashville, Tennessee. That's August 20th through 22nd and 2025, and it is the largest and number one rated.
Trade show and convention for home service business builders. We've got the biggest trade show, so you can check out all the coolest tools and meet the vendors and check out the software to run your business. And it's got, we've got, um, education, world class education and educators and speakers that will teach you how to run a better business.
And it's the best networking opportunity that you can have within the home service business. And then lastly, if you wanna pour jet fuel in your business. Check out the Hughes Mastermind now. It's not for everyone. You gotta be at over $750,000 of revenue and you're building toward a million, 5 million, 10 million in the next five years.
And it is a network, and a mentorship and a mastermind of your peers, and we help you understand and implement the Freedom operating system. We can go into more detail, but you can get all the information on all four of these programs and how we'll help you advance your business quickly just by going to the huge convention.com.
And scroll down and click on the freedom path. Or of course you can find the links here in the show notes. So, sorry, I feel like I'm getting a little bit wordy, but I just wanna let you know of the resources that are available to you to help you accelerate and advance your beautiful, small business. So keep on growing, keep on learning, keep advancing.
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