37: The James Riley Episode

On this episode of the Huge Transformations Podcast, Sheila Smeltzer sits down with James Riley of Upper Cumberland Window Cleaning, a 13-year business owner in rural Tennessee who is pushing to break through the million-dollar mark. James shares one of the more honest and heartfelt growth stories in the series, explaining how he got into window cleaning almost by accident, bought a struggling route with barely any real customers, burned through his savings, and had to take a janitor job just to keep his family afloat while rebuilding the company from the ground up. What makes his story stand out is not just the grind, but the conviction behind it: James built the business with a long-term vision of creating one of the best places to work in his area and leaving behind something bigger than himself.

 

James and Sheila talk through the realities of scaling in a smaller market, dealing with new competitors, improving systems, and making the shift from owner-operator to actual business leader. They also get into employee retention, company culture, transparency, performance pay, coaching, and the challenge of not letting the owner become the bottleneck. Throughout the conversation, James makes it clear that his business is driven by faith, family, and service to people, and that perspective shapes everything from leadership to hiring to how he defines success. It is a strong episode for owners trying to push past a revenue ceiling while building a company with real heart.

 

Resources

• Upper Cumberland Window Cleaning

• Upper Cumberland Window Cleaning Facebook

• Upper Cumberland Window Cleaning Instagram

• The Huge Insider newsletter signup

• The Huge Insider podcast downloadable action guide

• The Huge Mastermind info page

• The Huge Convention

 

Transcript:

 Hello everyone. Welcome to the Huge Transformations podcast. I'm Sid Graef out of Montana. I'm Gabe Torres here in Nashville, Tennessee. And I'm Sheila Smeltzer from North Carolina, we are your hosts and guides through the landscape of growing a successful home service business. We do this by interviewing the best home service business builders in.

 

The industry folks that have already built seven and eight figure businesses and they want to help you succeed. Yep. No fake gurus on this show, just real life owners that have been in the trenches and can help show you the way to grow profitably. We get insights and truths from successful business builders, and every episode is 100% experience.

 

0% theory. We are going to dig deep and reveal the good, the bad, and the ugly. Our guests will share with you the pitfalls to avoid and the keys to winning. In short, our guests will show you how to transform your home service business into a masterpiece. Thanks for joining us on the Wild Journey of Entrepreneurship.

 

Let's dive in.

 

Welcome to the Huge Transformations podcast. I am Sheila Smeltzer, your host and contributor. Today I'm interviewing James Riley. James Riley is from Upper Cumberland Window Cleaning, and he is a 13 year company that is aiming to go to, aiming to hit a million dollars this year. So if you are in that space, if you are in that realm of size of business and you're looking to break through the ceiling of a million dollars, you wanna listen to this.

 

The cool part about this interview today is this is a little bit different. We talk about operations, we talk about sales, we talk about systems, but what you're gonna find from listening to this wonderful person, James Riley, is how much heart we should all aspire to have for our own companies. He 100% wants to just.

 

His goal is to just have the best place to work. He loves providing opportunities for people. And he loves people. Um, he's a very spiritual man. Um, and you'll see how that comes through to him, really crushing it in business. This is so cool. I love this stuff. You know, we all have our own individual and unique contributions and we can play that out however we want in our own companies, and I think it's really neat to, to experience the way that.

 

We're all doing it. So be an active listener. That is my, that is my wish for you today is to be an active listener. Listen to what we can learn from James Riley, and we are just here in every single interview to help you grow. Enjoy the show. Hey listeners, this is Sheila Smeltzer with the Huge Transformations Podcast.

 

Thank you for joining us today. Um, we're gonna have a nice conversation with James Riley out of Tennessee. Uh, James owns Upper Cumberland Window Cleaning, and he's been in the business for about 13 years, and, uh, just by getting a little soft opening with him before the recording today. Um, I really wanna get into James, uh, life in his 13 years.

 

He's right at that breaking the ceiling from 800,000 to a million dollars. And we wanna dive deep and see what's good, what's difficult, and what he thinks that he could have done differently so that we can help all of our listeners, um, avoid any pitfalls and, and learn from the show. So, hey, welcome James.

 

Well thanks. Thanks for having me. You are quite welcome. I'm excited for this. So we've met each other in the Mastermind and um, but we've never really gotten to know each other, so this is a great opportunity. Yeah. What better than this? Let's share with a lot of people. Yeah, sure. So James, tell us about Upper Cumberland and how you got started in the window cleaning business.

 

Okay. And all the other services that you do too, please. Okay. Yeah, sure. Well, how we got started about 13 years ago, I had a job. And I had a friend that, uh, acquired other businesses and, and everything, um, that I went to church with. And, and he approached me about window cleaning. I mean, where I'm at. Like I said, and I'm, I'm in the sticks of Tennessee.

 

I mean, we have served seven counties just to make up for not being the metro area. And two of those counties are probably one of the poorest counties. Well, anyway, he approached me and I turned him down window cleaning. I have fun at that. And well, he's very persistent. He offered me a free lunch. You know, I'm not a free Will Baptist, but I am a free Meal Baptist, so, okay.

 

I took him up on that free lunch and uh, he kind of talked me, he said, just go out with me and see what you think and anything. You know what, just go out with us and see what you think about it. And so I did that. I met him on a Saturday. Saturday morning. Really, really early. So we met about, um, I'd be at his house probably at three 30 in the morning.

 

Wow. From the get go. Okay. So we met up with people who were selling it, you know, they wanted to get an early start and, um, we went out on a route with them and, and I felt like the word gimme a commercial storefront, commercial storefront route, it was storefront routes at that time. All. And so I felt like Noah, when the Lord gave Noah a blueprint on how to build the art, he's given me one on how to, um, on this business.

 

He gave me a vision of about this business and where it's going to go. Um, so we met with him. We accepted it. I didn't have enough money to get him in, so he, he vows for me. Um, he actually bought the whole thing, so I was in debt to him. I thought this was something I could do on the weekends with my girls.

 

Okay. You know, um, to build work ethic and everything. And then, and, um, it didn't work out that way. I went to call one customers. I mean, they had a lot of ghost customers. I mean, they had about 200 something customers on, on file. We was lucky to have a hundred of them. Ah, I went to call 'em. They, we fired.

 

They had a bad reputation. Didn't know anything about it. Um, like I said, I've never bought anything like this before and he says, I'm out. I'm out of this. And. He gave me his portion. I had to pay him back. So you all heard about sids, um, eat macaroni and cheese and everything like that? Yeah. I had no money.

 

I, my savings count was empty. Nothing coming in. So, excuse my bil analogy. I ate beans and taters for, for six months. We got tired of that. We ate taters and beans. I mean, it was, it was that bad. And, um, but anyway, um. My wife was worried. Um, we got two girls at home and, you know, losing our insurance and everything, it, it was just a big mess.

 

Um, so it all worked out. I mean, I had some background in some, um, when I used to work in the dealership industry of, of, I started a big parts connection in the area and, um, from Knoxville to Nashville. Um, it's called Middle Tennessee Parks Connection. And I, you know, so I was always good at PR and. With customers and, and building that way.

 

But, um, never had my own business. Okay. And again, I just went with the, the vision the Lord's given me. We're still going through and I always tell my competitors until God stops, gimme visions, that's when I'll worry. And, but he's still, you know, I got a DD so I'm not one of those can read a book and, and, and really understand it without having to read it 10 times.

 

You know what I mean? So it's, it kind of makes it a little bit more difficult for me in the, in the business industry, um, on that end. Um, yeah, there's a lot of, a lot of failures. We done. I mean, a lot of, a lot of wins and some losses of getting to this point. 13 years. Not everything is best. The struggle's real, Sheila.

 

It's real. The struggle is real is real. So, you know, I could see why my language, James, you're speaking my language. Yeah. I don't, I don't now I don't understand why businesses do not make it in the first five years. Yeah. You know, um, if you, if you're going to open up business. You can't be a know-it-all.

 

That's why, you know, that's one of the biggest rules. You can't think you have all the answers. Mm-hmm. Always. There's a scripture in the Bible says, surround yourself by men of oath. For they know the way of judgment. It's because they've been there and done that. Surround yourself by the people who's been in those positions and that's one thing I like about the huge and the Mastermind.

 

Yeah. What you're going through now, someone's already crossed that bridge. Yep. And they give you all the glue for all the tools and everything to get over that bridge easier. So 100%. Yeah. So you, you bought this business, um, which was, sounds like it was a pretty loose transaction. There was supposed to be 200 storefronts.

 

There was really only a hundred. No. Um, and how old were your daughters that you were trying to get 'em out there and teach 'em the work ethic and everything? Oh, well my oldest one's, she just turned 21 in November and my, my youngest one's getting ready. Uh, 17. So, you know, they were little girls. Yeah. They were like, yeah, 10 and 13, something like that, or Yeah.

 

Yeah. They're little girls for sure. Yeah. That is so cool. Um, do they have any, any role in the company now? Today? They do not. I mean, when we go, we have Indeed and everything. My youngest ones likes to come in here and hit the reject button. Other than that, they don't have any roles. Um, my oldest one, I think she's got her life going on in a direction and, and, and very blessed on that one.

 

But my youngest one, she's at that age where she really don't know what she wants to do. So yeah. She's 17. Yeah. We'll give her some grace. Exactly. She'll figure it out. Yep. Got a good dad, I can tell. Yeah. Um, so, okay, so what did you do? So you got this business, you started doing the storefronts. You're like, okay, this isn't even what it was supposed to be.

 

Um, so. In that first, I'm assuming there was a truck somewhere in the mix. You had a truck or, yeah. I mean, I didn't know what to expect with it. I bought this business, I mean, it came with an, an antique under pole water pit pole. Okay. It had screw on. Yep. Another little screw on. And man, it was, it was, it was tough.

 

I still have it, you know, that's an antique that's gonna be worth maybe some money in the window cleaning someday. I'll auction that thing off to. Someone probably for some big bucks, who knows. Yeah. You need to put it in the, um, the IWCA has a, um, a silent auction every year at the banquet. At the annual banquet.

 

They do not have this one, I guarantee you. Yeah. Pay big money for that, James. Yeah, it came with that and it came with the, it came with the computer, um, and a couple mops in a bucket. Okay. So it was me and a, and a Chevrolet Tracker vehicle. Okay. So let's fast forward. I mean, when did you start to, because I'm assuming, are you doing commercial still?

 

Storefronts you're doing residential Yeah. Residentials. Um, yeah, the whole nine yards. We're doing, you know, doing and, and you're doing soft washing, power washing, and I heard you say lights too. Yes. All right, so in these 13 years, you've grown it up to offer now this full menu of services, really, um, they're all very, quite complimentary to each other, especially in the access and the, the, the equipment and all that sort of thing.

 

Um, so how many trucks you have running now? What's your staff look like today? 13 years later? Right now I got five trucks and a, and a sales car. Okay. All right. Good. That's a nice fleet. Yeah. And, um, what's your sales team look like? Our sales team, I got one inbound sales person's been with us for a few years and just hired two outbound sales.

 

Okay. And these are in-house? They're in the office. They, they're in the out the outbound sales? Not as much. They're out there getting. Got it. All right. So they're doing like door to door and stuff like that. Their offices are vehicles. Okay. All right. I love it. And are they focused primarily on the storefronts and the commercial or are they also doing that for residential?

 

All the above. Yeah. Residential, they're focused on, um, residential, commercial, um, HOAs, property managers, you know, um, going through all the trade shows they can go to and, and. Um, chambers and Cool. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Okay. So, um, and then in your current market, I'm assuming that there's been growth because you said that you were in kind of like poor, poor market.

 

Um, as far as Yeah. Uh, yeah. See I'm not livelihood and all that sort of thing, so I'm assuming that there's been some growth there has. Yeah. Like I said, it, it, when I first started, it didn't even pay for myself. It was pathetic. And, um, it's grown for the, over the years. Um, like I said, now our goal this year is to get to an eight to million dollars this year.

 

Um, so we're on track for that. Great. And we with, uh, a big thank you to the, the masterminds and, and everything of that, so Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Um, so how about finance, like building your budget and doing all your bookkeeping and your payroll? Are you doing that, James? I do not do that. I have an office manager who does that.

 

Great. I don't dip my hand in the cookie yard. That's one of the big role I, I have as an owner. I have a salary for myself that, you know, is paid and um, and I don't dip my hands or don't need to belong. Yeah. Yep. I agree. Um, it's, it's been tricky for me. I mean, there's times where I've, you know, leveraged some profit from the company to do some things for myself.

 

Yeah. But for the most part, I'm the same. I take a salary and I leave the rest in the company and reinvest those profits, reinvest and grow it. Yeah, that's right. I want Henry four on that aspect. You know, you don't have to know everything to surround yourself. People know what they're doing on their part, so.

 

Yeah, that's right. Um, right people, right seats and they've gotta get it, want it, have the capacity to do it. They have to. Yep, absolutely. So, um, what's your, what, so how did you learn the window cleaning? I mean, did this guy that you bought it from, did he teach it to you and like, same with the other things, like the lights and the soft wash.

 

How did you learn to actually do the work? Because you told me before we came on that you really are. Fairly recently still just coming off of the truck. Right. Uh, as you said, out of the warehouse when I didn't, when I first started this, I didn't know anything about window cleaning. Mm-hmm. I mean, I, when I was a teenager, I had a full service.

 

I worked at a full service gas station. Now I had a, that's the much, that's the only time I used the squeeze you in my life. Was you The windshields? Yeah. Windshields. Yeah. And to be honest with you, I hated it because it wasn't what I was used to. You know, everybody jumps in. Oh, I love it. I didn't, I mean, I had to have it come to Jesus, me moment where God had to show me the blessings of this.

 

Mm-hmm. Because I wanted to get back from what I was known for doing, you know, and it was a humble experience because I quit a good paying job. 'cause I was already so invested in this. I had to either, either sink or swim, swim or drown. And so I chose the swimming part. And I had a take. I mean, I had a good job.

 

I'm, you got 'em to keep mind. I'm in a small community as well where everybody knows everybody. Yeah. And, um, so I quit this job and I remember my father-in-law was saying this made the dumbest mistake ever made to quit the job of benefits to do something like this. Mm-hmm. And I had, within a month from doing this, I had to get on, um, on the local school where my daughters was going to elementary school, I became a janitor.

 

Mm. Imagine the humble experience. You, you see when you're talking to your friends out there, you know, and, and they respect you for what you're doing or they see you successful and the next week you're holding the moop in the school. Yeah. You know, it's very humble experience, but I knew the vision and I knew what God had me in the store for me to do, and he still, and I'm still following it through.

 

Yeah. And I noticed in, in, when you have a business, I mean, you'll lose a lot of friends. It is, it is different. You know, they don't see things way you see 'em, you know, you don't, you have wins. It's like we, we, we said in the mastermind, you know, you have no one to celebrate the wins with you. They don't unders they don't get it.

 

Yeah. And, um, so yeah, yeah, that was, I was told that several times this was stupid. Why go after something like window cleaning? Mm-hmm. And I knew, and when I'd started this, I said, I'm make this one of the biggest and best places in this area to work at. Everyone knows who upper camera window clean is. Who, who they are.

 

And we're a household name now Okay. In this area. So I think we succeeded that. I love it. And it sounds like, um, so and is that what it is now that really keeps you invested is, um, the people? It is the mostly employees. My, you know, it's why I get up my family. Um, and, and, and it's, the employees now serve family.

 

Um, my, my focus has changed. It's not about me and, and, um, it's not about creating, you know, James Riley's window cleaning. I, I'm focusing on a bit, you know, I want this to be something after I'm dead and gone. Yeah. Um, a legacy. A legacy. Yeah, a legacy if you, if you will. Um, so it's, it's about the employees that we have here, their families.

 

Like I said, they've been with us for years. Uh, we created something here. Like I said, I've jack of all trades, a master, none. I worked around a lot of places, done a lot of things, but I took what I liked at each of those places and I put that into where this atmosphere here, and most importantly, we are a faith-based business.

 

So we do start the week off in prayer. That's one time we get everybody together, and that's first and foremost. Um, so it's a ministry as well. You know Yeah. Plant a seed water, but always, always trust God. Give the increase, whatever it is. So it is helped a lot of people going through situations and don't mistake that with a charity case.

 

'cause we're not a charity case Right. As well. So, but it's a good place, great atmosphere to work. Um, and we created something that's, and that's my why, getting up every day, creating something better for, for the employees and their families and see what we can see, what win we can achieve today. So. I love that.

 

So do you think that having faith in the business, do you think that that helps you in recruiting, um, talent, or does that make it more difficult? Because maybe you're finding people that don't have God in their heart, and maybe you're finding people that do, but what does that look like whenever you're hiring?

 

I'm just curious. I mean, it's a little bit of both, but you gotta keep in mind where I'm at. I'm, I'm in the Bible belt area. Yeah. Of, of the country. So it, it is not as hard for me as it would be for others. You know? They know. And, and that's the reputation I had. I, you know, I'm a preacher. I went from preaching every Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday, revivals, evangel to this being my pulpit.

 

Okay. And that took a hard lesson to learn, where I try to get away from it and go back and behind a pulpit, but God kept bringing me back. Now, this is your pulpit. Mm-hmm. This is where I want you. So, and it is this fine line trying to, you know, to do that. So it took a lot of learn. Um, a lot of failures came in my life out trying to make that move, you know, not understanding, you know, I'm one of those I wish God just smack me in the face, like, here it is.

 

But, um, but it is, uh, it's not really been that hard to find employees like that. Um, most. For the most part, they might start off a little ruggish. Mm-hmm. Uh, my supervisor, I mean, he didn't really believe, now he's requesting prayer every Monday morning, you know? Ah, so it, it's something special to see that.

 

So, you know, it's working, you know, you know, I'm not perfect. Don't look at me, but I, I serve one who is Yeah. And that, and that's where I'm on point you at, you know, don't look at me and my faults. I'm gonna show you I'm perfect. I am all day long. You know, it'll take five minutes to know my best. 15 minutes wasn't good enough to put it that way, or 15 seconds.

 

So I love it. So really, you've taken your business, you've, 'cause if you used to be a preacher and now you've taken it into, this is the platform by which you can still share the word. Yeah. And, and do it with your employees, which really does create a lot of unity and family and teamwork and, yeah. Yeah. I love it.

 

That's a very unique story, James, and I really appreciate you sharing that. Um, and there's just so much good in that. Um, so yeah. Um, well, I wanna, I wanna, so you pretty much self-taught yourself. Are you involved with any industries? I mean. Like, and then how did you come to the huge, like how did you learn all of that and like what happened?

 

Because I know you're right there in Tennessee, so they were close by, but tell me that story. Well, how I come to here kind of on Facebook. Okay. That'd be interesting because I needed to know more. I wanted to educate myself and, and become a professional in my trade here. You know, it's hard to sell a service, uh, when you're, when you don't know much about it.

 

Mm-hmm. Um, just like walk, sending a salesman out there trying to sell something they don't know nothing about because you know you are a salesperson, um, when you're out there. So, yeah, I got hooked up with a huge, um, I think my first one was in Atlanta. Um, that was a ways back. Yeah, that was ways back. And then, then Branson and then, you know, the last few here in Nashville.

 

So I think I, without, within 13 years, I missed maybe one, one. Huge prevention. And that's during growing pains where I couldn't take off. I was still in the truck and had a, yeah. Busy, busy schedule for, for one to three people then so. Well, you and I have been to a lot of shows together. We just never really met.

 

So this is cool. I love it. I always speak to myself, you know, I'm one of those shy guys and you know, just kind of okay resort a little bit until you get to know me and then I'm just chatty Cathy, I guess. No, this is cool. 'cause I mean, yeah, 'cause now you're kind of getting yourself out there and with the podcasts and people get to know you a little bit better, so I love it.

 

Um, so, um, you are, you're kind of at the stage in the company and, um, you know, 800 to a million is what you're trying to do this year. So do you find that that's kind of like, uh, you feel like you're kind of like trying to break, just lost him.

 

Okay. Little technical difficulty there, but we're back. Um, so James, what we were talking about is, um, you being really right at that, like in the phases of business and with growth, we get to this, to the, we get to the revenue. Um, kind of benchmarks where we're having a struggle breaking through and it can take two to three years, sometimes at a certain revenue to actually,

 

and, and again, we're talking about kind of breaking through the revenue ceiling. Um, where, what are you experiencing? What's really difficult about. Getting to that million dollars or have you had any stagnation in revenue where you're trying to push through? What's it look like the last couple years?

 

Well, it's, everything's going pretty smooth. And now, you know, you got AI kind of taking over some things and you got people coming out, you know, behind the computer, what they were doing, getting into the service industry. So now it is competition, you know, having to, you know, put that on your toes. And that's where, to me, the Mastermind and, and, and, um.

 

And finding a good business coach, um, to help you succeed and, and develop something that's going, you know, to, to put a dome around you, um, to protect your investment, you know? Mm-hmm. And employees and stuff like that. So it's, that's where this get my, got myself involved in something like that really helped, you know?

 

Yeah. Without that, I, I don't, you know, I'd still be way under what I wanted to be. The competition, you know, people said that it doesn't hurt you. I beg to differ, you know? It does to me it does. Um, especially when they're in that, you know, taking some of your customers away that you want to, that's been with you for a while, you know, that, that, that hurts.

 

So, you know, we're trying to combat that right now and hasn't hurt us too much, I think because of the mastermind and, and, and the great business coach. So good. Yeah. Do you find that, um, I mean, you've been in it a while, but do you find that, um, I don't know, window cleaning, soft washing, Christmas lights, it's all become like pretty sexy, right?

 

Like yeah. So much of it on social media now and you know, these, all this so satisfying videos and all of the thing that kind of started it. Um, so kind of like everybody's getting into it now, it's really saturated the market. Do you agree with that? I, I think so. I think they make it look so easy and you're, somebody's out there, Facebook and TikTok and all that stuff to make this industry look really easy until, you know, and I've seen a lot of business try to get started in this fail.

 

Yeah. Um, you know, they're not out there anymore, but there's always another one comes up, so, uh, yeah. Yeah. One thing that, um, I, I've, I've been in my market for 26 years and Oh, wow. Yeah. And, you know, it's, it's like, I kind of feel like I built it right, like I built the expectation of what customers expected to pay for professional window cleaning service, for professional house wash, for professional janitorial service, like that sort of thing.

 

And what's most frustrating to me, and I'm just gonna say it is. You know, obviously I have a company with overhead, you know, fixed and variable expenses and lots of payroll and all of that sort of thing. So that has to be built into my rate. Yeah. And again, you know, that's what we're out there fighting for every day.

 

And then now you've got so many new guys coming in and they're owner operators and bl and bless 'em. Like they're, they're coming in, they're doing the same thing that you and I did. Yeah. Like no fault. I get it. And, and it's a great entry point for, for a business. So I understand that a hundred percent.

 

What I, what I have a really hard time with is that when I've built a price expectation in a market, why, why are they coming in and trying to destroy it? Because it's like they, I don't think they realize that down the line, if they wanna grow and they wanna succeed and turn it. A company, they're gonna have to charge those rates too, and they're really kind of themselves in the foot, right?

 

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So, um, I don't know if you experienced the same thing, but it's a huge conundrum to me. It's like, man, I've worked so hard and. You know, like, I know there's you, you can't price fix, you can't get 'em all in a room. You'd be like, charge this way. Yeah. Yeah. But, um, but I mean, it's, it's a real thing.

 

So anyway. But what does your competition look like? Is it, is it is. It's not bad. Have a lot of companies in your market? We, we do. We have several. Um, a lot of 'em are, are mostly bucket bob type competition, but there are a few, you know, two to three that's my size and maybe little less. We have good, um, we, we help each other out quite a bit.

 

So Good. That's healthy. That is healthy competition. We work good together and it works for all of us on that end, you know. That's great because I do, they don't things they do that I don't. So, um. We kind of help each other out. I'm glad to hear that. And I have, um, several companies in my market too that, yeah, we have lunch together.

 

We call each other on the phone, we chat about business, we chat about the market, we chat about our services, and we stay in good contact because, you know, really we do, we all wanna support each other and help each other out and maintain good relationships. And at the end of the day, what's most important is that we are, we are, um.

 

You know, we are raising that standard of professionalism in the industry. Right. That is really what matters. Yeah. Um, so anybody that is doing that, they are akay with me. Yeah. Yeah. They're still in line from Jim to Wall. Um, give that world class service. Right. So, um, James, you told me that you have really good retention and this is a tricky thing.

 

Um, I. This is a really tricky thing. I what is your secret? Is treat 'em like they're humans, you know, treat 'em. Um, of course you always get those ones every now and then. That's not, you know, that's not a great fit. Um, take care of best you can. Um. You know, do what, sorry. Are, are you paying, um, hourly commission?

 

Do you have any types of, like bonus programs or anything like that? Is there any We, we do, we pay hourly, which is fixing to change. We're fixing probably go over to the production model. Mm-hmm. Um, I'm probably one of the last ones that's a business my size that does pay hourly. Um, but we, you know, but we're getting ready to go into the production model for 'em, and, and the supervisor and employees, we talked about it, and that's nothing I, that, that helps to, the employees feel like it's part of theirs as well.

 

So it's not a decision I just make here it is, you know. Mm-hmm. Um, well, the upper manager will talk about it and then we'll get with employees. We'll take their concerns and, and everything. We'll, we'll, you know, we're all, um, adults in the room and, and we're hashing through everything. And, and see what works, showing the numbers and, um, they're usually on board with, with a lot of things.

 

And if they have concerns, we'll hash it out, you know, we'll just, we'll go from A to Z on it and see what, you know, what would be the issue. Mm-hmm. So we're making them feel like they have ownership in this as well. Yeah, that's one big keys too. So yeah, it's, it's a big move. Um, we switched to performance pay.

 

I think we're on our third year of performance pay. And it really changes a lot of the dynamic in the company. And I think that it sounds really good and I know it's very popular for companies in our industry to do it. Um, I honestly have. Some, like, now that I've been through it and, um, really trying to, um, I'm trying to hold to it, but it is, it has presented a lot of challenges in the company to be honest for me.

 

Okay. Um, and you know, I say like my biggest piece of advice and for anybody listening is you gotta make sure from a finance perspective that you're offering the correct percentage. Um, that allows them to be able to still earn equally or as good as they were hourly, and that it's not too much, that even though you're fixing that labor rate at a certain percentage, that you're thinking about all the other things.

 

Like are you, when you're hiring people, are they coming on hourly and then would they be earning overtime? There's other things that can contribute. To, um, that labor rate going too high. And so even though that you fixed it at a percentage, so there's, there's, you know, quite a bit there. Um, it also opens a ton of transparency, like you said in the company of, 'cause now everybody knows your prices and everybody knows, um, you know, really how to price the jobs and all that sort of thing.

 

Um, it does make everybody really focused on the dollar. That's something that I have found that's been a downside. Um, we're service companies and service companies, you know. We go out and we serve people, right? Like that's what we do. So, um, that, that's been something too that's been quite challenging.

 

'cause I've noticed that, you know, sure. Paying hourly, they go out and oh, they wanna do their best job for Mrs. Jones and maybe that's costing the company a lot of money because they're spending too much time or something like that. So it does create more of the hustle and the efficiency I think. But, um, it, to, to keep it focused on quality at the same time, I think is crucial.

 

Yeah. Really, really crucial. Um, so, but yeah, it's, um, it's quite interesting. And I'd say the other thing that I've learned is even though people are on commission now, I think it's extremely important that you're still keeping track of time. Because if you can, if they're still clocking in and clocking out at the end of the day.

 

Then essentially at the end of each year, you can look at their all their time sheets and a total, and you can look at the revenue or the what they've earned, their gross revenue that they've earned, and you can average out to see where they fall in that equivalent of an hourly rate. And to know if you're competitive in the job market, to know that you're paying them correctly and all that sort of thing.

 

So I think it's really important to still keep track. Yeah. Of the time. At the end of the day, we're selling labor, right? Yeah. We're, we're selling time. So, um, those are just some of my personal experiences, probably, probably listeners that are going like, ah, you know, you know, now it's been great and whatnot and that's good.

 

But, um, you know, that's just my perspective and how it's been in my company. We did, um, actually roll back our commissions a little bit this year. Um, that was kind of tough, but they were too high and that's really hard when you have to pull back. So that's why I say you wanna make sure that you've really analyzed your finances and make sure that you are offering the right commission amount so that, and waging it against that hourly so you know that they're still able to, you want them to make, add and exceed what they were able to before, create the efficiency and, you know.

 

Ideally you're doing more jobs. You know, you, you do get a lot of pushback of, um, like the price of the job wasn't right. You get a lot of pushback on sales. You will. And because they feel like it should have been priced higher. And at the end of the day, like, I get that. I understand why they're concerned, right?

 

Yeah. Because that, that's, that results in how much they make. So, um, that's the other part of it is making sure that the way that your pricing jobs is standardized. And all these houses and everything are so different. It's hard to do. Oh yeah. Yes, sure is. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, so tell me about your business coach.

 

You said you have a business coach. What's that look like? It's going, uh, I started back in October, um, and it's, it's going well on that. So, you know, we're just, now, I feel still at the beginning stages of some things. Um. Because it was, it was very overwhelming of the material they had so, um, to go by.

 

Mm-hmm. Um, but now I think we're getting a handle on some things to, to help us. And, and it's been a big help. It's like being a business owner. Like I said at the beginning of this, you can't go in this knowing at all. Right. So at some point you're gonna need help. Yep. And, um. Okay. And I was one of those, I looked at it like this.

 

There's a lot of business coaches out there. I mean, everyone has their own opinion on who to use, who to get, and um, of course I like to eat. So I, when I go out and take my family out somewhere to a different town or something different place, vacation, I like to go where there's a big, a lot of people are on the parking lot, so empty parking lot, because that tells me the empty parking lot.

 

Food's probably not gonna be that good. And so I go to the, I go to the one who, where it's a lot of people in there. So we go eat and nine out 10 times we have a great experience. And that's how we looked at the coach that I, that I hired, um, that coaches a lot of people in our industry and stuff and, and everyone rated about about them.

 

So I, I chose them and it's, I'm, I'm glad I did. We help. Yes. So how often do you meet with your coach? Is it once a month? Uh, we meet several times a month, you know, on round table falls and stuff like that, on, on that. And it's, um, so it's, you know, it keeps you on your toes. Yeah. Yep. It's a, it's an accountability partner, right?

 

Yeah. And you're probably like. Building out your business plan, setting your budget with them, doing all that sort of thing, checking in doing your monthly financials and what went wrong and what do we need to do? What do we need to fix? It's, is it, does it look like that? It does, yeah. And the systems, what we thought we had in place was great, but some of the systems we had was holding us back.

 

Mm-hmm. So, you know, that's another thing as well, that was, we had. Re-look at our systems. It is like looking in the mirror and, and checking your faults, right. Time to time to change some things, you know? Yeah. What's the most challenging thing for you at this point? The most challenging thing for me at this point is getting over the overwhelmness of, of, of the new systems were put in place.

 

Um, it was, that was one of the biggest challenge for me. On, on that. Um. And get myself outta the way more. Mm-hmm. And that was, that's a big challenge. Um, because like I said, it's not about me anymore. You know, of course I'm the one who, who comes up with the ideal strategies and, and, and at the end of the day, sign off on stuff.

 

But the same time, you know, that's why I created in this business. 'cause when I worked at, when I worked at places, transparency was a big deal. They didn't care about me. They, you, you were just a number to 'em. And I didn't want my employees, I don't care if it was a guy out here just picking up, grab off the parking lot.

 

I want him to know he matters. Mm-hmm. So, um, I want transparency to be a big thing in our company. You know, bring everybody together, let them know they mean something to us. I don't care. We have a hundred employees. I still wanna create that family type team atmosphere. So, um, and. But getting myself outta the way to, to keep that going has been a big hurdle.

 

Yeah. Yeah. And empowering them to do the things right? Yes. Yeah. Yep. Um, you're right, it is. Well, I, I'm assuming James, that you have very good leadership capabilities with your preaching background and. And things like that. And, um, and you definitely come with a lot of heart, so I have a feeling it's probably you're, you're well poised to lead this organization into great things.

 

I appreciate that, Sheila. Yeah. Thank you. Yes, you are welcome. So what else do you wanna chat about? Think about the listeners out there and you know, like we can kind of make it fun. I mean, what's probably one of the dumbest things or things that you said, oh man, I should have totally done different. Can you think of anything?

 

Yeah. Uh, don't commit, don't commit yourself to too much right away. Okay. What about when I first start? I got a funny story. Yeah, let's hear it. When I first, when I first started this, I mean, we were with, you know, we started this in April of 2013, and that's when I took over the reigns of this business and, and went pretty much built it from the ground up to where it is.

 

But in the, from April through that September, they had a Paul home show, and this is where all your talk hall and people in the. Places go to, to, um, see the business out there. It's not as big as it used to be, but um, but anyway, I didn't have enough money for get to be really branded like we are now. So we went out and got one of those big, you know, white post, uh, postcard posters, things to draw on it.

 

Mm-hmm. And I worked, I had my little girls helping me and I, that's when I was working sun up to sun down. I mean, I was barely get two, three hours of sleep at night. 'cause hitting, you know, getting up. I mean, guys who are first starting out, they know about this and the women starting in the week business and, um, they're out there just describing.

 

And so we put this post or this poster car together with upper coming window cleaning together. Okay. And thought it looked good. Everything looked good, but, and we're, and, and, and they had this, this, the, the, um, school superintendent coming there at this show as well with their students. And my booth is right next to the stage.

 

Where she was gonna be at. Okay. Somehow we spelt, we, we, we mispelt cleaning. And we spoke cleaning in. So we put the ING on there twice on that. So that really, but at the same time it got us a lot of business. So go figure. You're definitely different post. I don't know, but it happened. Yeah. Everybody kept going to my booth.

 

We had a college, Tennessee Tech was out there and they kept coming by our booth. I thought they're just happy to see us. Yeah, they're looking at that, looking at that poster. So it was kind of comical. So, um. Yeah, I love that. I love that. So, yeah. Yeah, that's why I, I used to my advantage. That's why you need to pay me to send me some education so I can still things better.

 

So Yeah. Yeah. Hire me. I love it. So what's the vision for the company? We know where you wanna get this year in 2026, but what's your vision? The vision is still there where I want this to be the, one of the best places in our area, if not the best places to work. You know, we are going to our first job fair, competing against factories and stuff like that next month.

 

So now we offer about everything they can offer, you know, so, um, I'm excited about that. I'm, I'm just wanting to, um, and keep getting those A players to help take us to the next level. Yeah. Um, and the boy, I go through my share just to get those bodies in here just to get, be, you know, I got a lot of stories on that too.

 

I'm sure. Sure you do too. So. Yep. Um, just hiring anybody. But, um, but yeah, that's the vision is, is, is to right now, I'm still, like I said, I went from a truck to a van that was possessed to an HHR that got struck by Lightning to um. A little van and now we got these other vans. I got a warehouse, a little warehouse behind where I live at, uh, a warehouse in town for the lights.

 

But my vision now is to get away, to get everything away from my house into town. So, um, closer to where everything's at. Yeah. That's my vision now. And create a great place of, of employment, you know, that's hard. I don't have to get rich doing this. I'm fine. Okay. I'm good. All Bill being paid food to eat on the table.

 

I mean, I'm one of those, Hey, my, it's okay to be successful. It's okay to get yours here, but at the end of the day, I can't take it with me. I always tell people, you never see a U-Haul behind a hearse. So I know I can't take that stuff. I just wanna build a legacy that's going to surpass me. Love that, that, that's my vision.

 

I love it. Um, very, it's very real. Um, you can 100% do exactly what you just said. I mean, that is, um, you're already really doing it, James, right? Yeah. Window cleaning. Really window cleaning, I mean. Wow. You know? Yeah. It's not what you do. It's amazing from, I hated doing to now this, I love doing this. It, it, it's a passion of mine and every day it's just, it's a new challenge, you know?

 

I'm one of those lucky challenge, so it's, it's a, it really fits great. So what changed? Because earlier you said you hated it and then now you love it. So what was it, do you know what happened where you went like, oh wow, I actually love doing this. Yeah. I, I don't have to worry about the fear of being, um, losing my job.

 

You know, someone stabbed me in the back trying to get my, you know, position. Um, or, um, if I wanted, you know, not had to worry about working so much hours, I had to work overtime or anything, I could spend more time with my family. Right. Even though I spent a lot of time and at work. I still spend a lot of time with my family at the same time.

 

'cause everything's right here. Yeah. And my wife now, she was a casual casualty from ai. She's been at her place for about 20 years. Had a great job, never could afford her. Mm. And I told her at the beginning, or beginning of the last year, well, middle of the summer last year, I told her, I said, A year from now I'm gonna steal you away from your job.

 

You can come work for me. Well, she just lost her job about three, you know? Right. Uh, it was the day, actually, the day we went to mastermind. Okay. You know, and I was traveling up there was on that, that Tuesday before the Wednesday we met Mastermind. She lost her job due to ai and so now she's coming in here to develop those systems, which I'm ex excited about because you know, she does good.

 

That's what she does. Mm-hmm. So love it. Opened up the window of opportunity for her too. Yeah. Wow. I love it. So what is her role in the company? I'm a her president. That's, that's her role. She's, right now, she's develop her man. I want her to, um, develop the system in a couple years. I want her to train somebody to take her place.

 

And that way we can, you know, by then our, you know, we can, I wanna be a, um, I'm a beach bum. I like mountain too, but I like, I love going to the beach. I, I mean, if it wasn't for this, I probably had the lone dreadlocks, um, barefoot it in the sand, living underneath a, a p somewhere. But yeah, that's. Yeah. Well, now we know what your vision for retirement looks like.

 

Yeah. Truth is, I'll probably have those high colored black socks on with a metal thick. Yeah. Oh my gosh, that's great. So true family business. I mean, you've got, and like I know, understand all your employees aren't your family and your girls aren't working in the company, but your wife is, but you are really, you've created a family through your company.

 

Yeah. Um, and that, you know, they see that of course. Yeah, it, it really does. I think it's, it's really natural for us to put so much emphasis on our employees and care about them. You know, so many of these, uh, interviews that I do, and everybody kind of says the same thing. I mean, often we're, we're paying the other guys before we pay ourself.

 

Yeah, I mean, we really do sacrifice a lot and, um. And, you know, at the same time we have benefits of being business owners and whatnot, but, um, it's, it's a lot of risk. You are definitely putting yourself out there. Like you said, it's kind of lonely up there at the top. Yep. Yeah. Lose friends. Everybody wants to tell you what to do and how to do it.

 

Oh yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's, um, it takes a lot of grit and everybody listening I'm sure, knows that already 'cause they're all going through the same stuff. But I think there's so much value in hearing people's, everybody's stories because we can all relate in some way. I mean, that's why I tell listeners out there is keep your head up.

 

You know, it may be bad today, but you may have one of the biggest wins waiting on you tomorrow. Oh my gosh. I find that every single day. Like I can have some of the worst days and then the next day is like, oh my gosh, this, like, there, there's a little, little, little saying in the Bible that says, this too shall pass.

 

This too shall pass. So, um, it, it will pass. I mean, so there's a, there's may 'cause I'm one of those where my feelings on my sleeve, I mean, you can read me like a book, you know, things ain't going well. You're gonna know that by looking at me. Right. But at the same time, this too shall pass. I mean, there's a better win waiting on you for the, you know, just moments away.

 

So just keep your head up. Don't, don't throw in the white flag. And, and, um, you know, that's one thing I also tell people in the Bible, there's never a white flag to be thrown in, you know, um, just keep for, um, perseverance and endurance and, and, and just keep stride ahead. And the mountains aren't easy to climb.

 

You know? Yeah. Storms ain't easy to go through, but you can get through 'em. Meaning giving up is not even an option. No, no. It's not even option. Don't quit. Yeah. Yeah. I got a family that, that, that, that relies on me, so it's not an option for me. Yep. You know, so this is, I got employees that rely on me. It's not an option at this point, so.

 

Yep. Well, hey, this has been very meaningful. I really appreciate the conversation. I, I, I love stuff like this and so I hope our, I hope our listeners do too. And, um, I wish you the best, James. I can't wait to see you in person now again. Alright. Yeah. I'm gonna track your, uh, your revenue goal for 2026 and I'm gonna see where you're at in fourth quarter and I hope that you're pushing a million.

 

I hope so too. Yeah, hope so too, Sheila. I look forward to seeing what that looks like for you. And again, thank you so much and thanks to all of our listeners today. All is well. We appreciate you taking the time and, and inviting me to this, to the huge, um, podcast here. I appreciate it. Yeah, no, absolutely. I enjoy every minute, so we have a great community here and we're just wanting to share.

 

We just wanna share, share each other's, each other's trials and tribulations and everything that we're learning along the way. 'cause we can help each other out. Yeah. We're all in this, I feel like even though we don't know each other personally, everything, but I feel like at the same time we're all in this together.

 

We are 100%. Yeah. Raising the standards. Right, exactly. I love it. All right, thanks James. Thanks listeners for joining us today. Signing off. Alright, take care. Hello my friend. This is Sid. Thank you again so much for taking your time to listen to today's episode. I hope you got some value from it. And listen, anything that was covered, uh, any of the resources, any of the books, any of the tools, anything like that is in the show notes, so it's easy for you to find and check it out.

 

And also, I wanna let you know the. Mission for the huge convention and for this podcast is to help our blue collar business owners like you and I, to gain financial and time freedom through running a better business. And we do that in four ways. Number one is our free weekly newsletter. It's called a Huge Insider.

 

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