Huge Transformations

21: The Amanda Powell Episode

In this episode of the Huge Transformations Podcast, host Sheila Smeltzer sits down with Amanda Powell of Contractor in Charge to tackle one of the biggest challenges in the home service and marketing industries: mid-management training. Amanda shares how to turn your best technicians into confident leaders, a crucial step for growth-minded service businesses.
Show Notes
Guest: Amanda Powell, Mid-Management Trainer at Contractor in Charge📧 Email: apowell@contractorincharge.com🌐 Website: https://contractorincharge.com
Key Topics Discussed:
Why training for mid-managers is critical yet often overlooked
Transitioning from technician roles to true leadership
Why most SOP implementations fail and how to fix it
Amanda’s 3-step training framework:1️⃣ Start with the “why” – show how changes benefit the whole team2️⃣ Practice together – hands-on implementation and demonstration3️⃣ Assess – confirm understanding and set up accountability
The importance of trust, consistency, and clear expectations
Strategies to foster feedback and accountability
Avoiding the “flavor of the week” trap in new initiatives
How Amanda’s Project Implementation Worksheet helps businesses vet and plan new ideas
How to identify if your mid-manager is struggling to let go of technician work or has a “knowledge hoarding” mindset
Referenced Resources:
E-Myth by Michael Gerber (concept of technician → manager → entrepreneur)
Freedom Operating System (EOS alternative) – integrating structured change in businesses
ServiceTitan software – setup and consulting support through Contractor in Charge
The Huge Convention – August 20-22, 2025, Nashville, TN: https://thehugeconvention.com/
Other Resources (always included):
The Huge Insider newsletter signup: https://thehugeconvention.com/insider
The Huge Insider podcast downloadable action guide: www.thehugeinsider.com
The Foundations platform trial offer: https://thehugeconvention.com/1foundationstrial
The Huge Mastermind info page: https://www.thehugemastermind.com/interest
Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/hugefoundations Transcript:
 Hello everyone. Welcome to the Huge Transformations podcast. I'm Sid Graff Outta Montana. I'm Gabe Torres here in Nashville, Tennessee. And I'm Sheila Smeltzer from North Carolina, we are your hosts and guides through the landscape of growing a successful home service business. We do this by interviewing the best home service business builders in.
The industry folks that have already built seven and eight figure businesses and they want to help you succeed. Yep. No fake gurus on this show, just real life owners that have been in the trenches and can help show you the way to grow profitably. We get insights and truths from successful business builders, and every episode is 100% experience.
0% theory. We are going to dig deep and reveal the good, the bad, and the ugly. Our guests will share with you the pitfalls to avoid and the keys to winning. In short, our guests will show you how to transform your home service business into a masterpiece. Thanks for joining us on the Wild Journey of Entrepreneurship.
Let's dive in.
Welcome to the Huge Transformations podcast. I'm your host, Sheila Smeltzer. I am so, so, so excited to be able to present to you today, Amanda Powell with contractor in charge. Amanda Powell is gonna talk to us about mid-management training, how training is such a difficult topic and one that all of us in the home services business, um, struggle with.
But we're talking about training at a mid-management level. So how do we take people within our organization. Train them to be managers. Um, because the biggest hurdle is that whenever we're technicians, we're very task oriented, but we need to train them how to be leadership and strategy oriented. So this is where Amanda comes in and this is where her expertise is, and she's gonna share this with you today.
So we're also gonna talk about SOPs and how to implement and hold people accountable to them. Amanda's gonna provide you framework that has three components that must happen to successfully implement standard operating procedures within your company. We also take a look at why 70% of the changes within your organization fail and how to unlock people's potential.
I know that this podcast is gonna. Get your wheels turning and think differently about training in general, but also it's gonna provide a ton of insight on how to integrate positive change in your company's organizational structure. Let's dive in.
Hey everybody. This is Sheila Smeltzer with the Huge Transformations Podcast. I am so glad to be back with you today, and I have a very. Awesome guest. Uh, her name is Amanda Powell. Hi, Amanda. Hello. Thank you for having me. Yes. Oh, I'm so grateful for this interview that we're getting ready to have because.
We are gonna talk training. Yes. And we are talking to an expert trainer right here. And as a matter of fact, Amanda is a, what you call, consider a mid-manager. How do you say that? She's a specialist. And mid-management training? Yes. For, uh, contractor in charge and contractor in charge is gonna be at the huge convention.
Mm-hmm. And they have a number of services they offer for home service businesses. And so we're gonna kind of. Hone in on one very, very important, um, uh, need that they fill for contractors, and that is training. And Amanda, I want you to just introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about yourself and your history and how you know so much about training.
And I really wanna dive in to talk about. How do we train? Yeah. Like what works? Absolutely. So tell us, tell us about yourself. Yeah, so I've been in the home service industry for, oh, going on eight, eight years now. Uh, my background is in education, funny enough, which translated well to training. That's what I got my degree in.
I taught for a little bit and then found myself to the home service industry and just. Fell in love with it and have been here since. Uh, I'm currently getting my master's degree in organization Development and Change. So all about how to make a company run, how to implement change. Uh, and so really my, my passion for training comes from that teaching background and knowing that.
The way you give information to someone, the way you help them succeed in it makes a huge impact on their career, uh, their growth and what they're able to accomplish. Mm-hmm. And training is, so much. Training is not about the trainer. Trainer training is about the people in the room and facilitating a discussion so that they can grow and really internalize what they're learning.
And it's, it's not about you as the trainer, it's not about being on the stage or in front of a group and telling your own stories. If you're training Right, you're talking 50% of the time and you're letting the group Yeah. It's like an engagement. Yes, it's an engagement. Yes. Exactly. Exactly. So yeah. And then I've been with contract.
Great. So, um, of course. Oh, sorry. I think I might have had delay on my end. Okay. I, yeah, no, I think we did. So I just wanna back up real fast. So, um, so the, you have eight years in the home service industry. Yes. Um, but prior to that, you're an educator. Yes. And you focus highly on organization development. And, um, change.
Change. Yes. Yes, yes. And so now you've been with contractor in charge for how long? Uh, for, uh, two years now. They've been two years. Fantastic. Yes. Okay. Yes. Great. And, um, I wanna, so. Oh, geez, sorry. The joys of technology, right. I got, I got booted outta my screen. I'm so sorry about that. That's fine. You're just fine.
Um, so, so, um, I wanna, let's do a quick so that everybody understands about contractor in charge. Can you just. Plug them briefly. Yes. And then I really wanna dive back into what you do. Yes. Um, and how you can help our, our listeners. So tell us about Contractor in charge. So, contractor in Charge is an amazing organization.
Lynn Wise is the owner. Um. It's great because it's just people wanting to do right by the customers and providing services to help contractors grow. So we have a call center. Uh, we also have an accounting team that does accounting and bookkeeping for companies. Uh, we do service site and consulting and then, uh, help with lead management.
And now leadership. Our, our goal is to be your one-stop shop for what you need to grow and improve your business. Great. So these are kind of like these fractional roles mm-hmm. That when companies are in that developmental stage and they're not to the size where they can actually go out and hire A CFO or a COO or, or whatnot, then they can, they can partner with contractor in charge and they provide these on a fractional level.
Yes. Yes, exactly. Um, we have some people where they go, look, we need a, we need a CSR, uh, or we need something for our rollover. We don't have people at nighttime. And so we come in on the, on the CSR level and we'll help, uh, accounting will be your accountant and help you, um, leads management. ServiceTitan setting up ServiceTitan is it can be a journey, and so we can, we can help with that.
Uh, and so yeah, we're, we're just that resource for the training needs that you need and the things you need in your company to grow. Okay. So, um, so let's talk about now what you do for, with contractor in charge or just. What you do in regards to training. Yes. Um, when I met you first, it was at a Sales Boost conference and you were a speaker.
Yes. And I just remembered, I mean, first of all, I was entranced with what you were talking about in regards to training. 'cause it was very clear to me that you knew what you were talking about and that, um, you didn't just have some kind of magic potion about what works. Like you, you really understood the, um, the, the psychology behind training, the accountability behind training, the setting, setting up of procedures and, and things like that so that it's structured.
And, um, so I mean, I just went to you after, after you got done speaking, I'm like, Hey, can I hire you? Sounds great. Yeah. And so, um, just for our listeners, and so, you know, um, Amanda has worked with, uh, my company a plus Pro Services. For what, going over a year now? Yeah, over a year now. Year, yeah. Um, and, and so, and, and to help develop our training program.
And it's been a great success. And so let's talk about that. Um, if, and, and let's talk about mid-management to start. So what does that mean if you're a mid-management trainer, what does that mean? Yeah, so I will help mid managers and in our industry that usually means your gm, your office manager, your field supervisor, things of that nature.
Uh, and my experience and what we see is someone's, usually, those positions are filled by someone that we know that was really good at their job. A really good CSR, really good technician. Uh. They're meeting their KPIs, they're doing fantastic. And we go, great, let's put them in a leadership type role and move them up.
Mm-hmm. And what happens is a leadership role has different components to it than when you are a technician or a CSR or some other entry level position at at the company. You go from doing very operational tasks, right? Taking phone calls, being in the field, fixing things to more of leadership. And people development and strategy development for a company.
Hmm. And the higher you move up in management, the more you shift from operational tasks to more people and leadership. And then when you get to the level of an owner, you're more heavy on the strategy side of the company. Sure. What happens is we miss this training to take place for these managers to help develop their leadership skills or their management skills and just to.
Separate those two. Management is about the things in your business. So mm-hmm. People get led, things get managed. Uh, no one wants to be managed as a person. Right? And with the things, it's going okay, how to, how do we structure the things in our company so that we can use it to our advantage? What data do we need to collect?
How do we do use the data to perform? To inform our decisions. And the leadership side is how do I develop my people? How do I give them a career path? How do I help them improve at what they do? How do I invest in them? Mm-hmm. Do I give feedback? All the human components. So there's two skill sets that take place and sometimes people know a little bit of both, and they're right in the middle.
Some people are really strong with the management side and don't have the leadership side. Or vice versa. Mm-hmm. And so my role is to come in and go, okay, where are we at right now? And how can I help you develop those skills so that ultimately you, your company and the team can be successful? Amanda, do you, do you lean on any type of personality assessments?
Prior to working with somebody who we are, um, bringing up into a mid-management role. I mean, does that come into play at all or are you kind of like no matter who you are, I can do, I can help. Yeah. I think it's no matter who you are, I can help. Now, an important thing is if you're looking for a specific goal, then you want to do a pre-assessment of.
The company to make sure I would wanna do a pre-assessment of the company to go is what you're looking to change, really what is needed. Um, so for example, sometimes an owner over will come to me and say, we need this done. And that's really a symptom of a bigger problem, right? They might say, my, I need to have my manager hold people accountable.
But we may look into it, do some, you know, interviews beforehand, little focus groups. I get a picture of what's going on, and that's one example. Someone said, Hey, we need, we need them to hold people more accountable. But the real problem was we need to set clear expectations and have a structure up front, and then we can talk about how to hold people accountable.
But if they didn't have those SOPs and structures in place first. You can't hold someone accountable if you don't have a framework first. So the real need was let's talk about how to build your structure first. Sure. And then we'll, we'll go from there. So in that way, yes, I'll do those assessments.
Personality, I think, I think anyone can do it. And it just depends what you're looking for as a company, what will thrive better, and so that's really on an individual basis. Okay. All right. That's great. Let's talk about the structure and SOPs. Um, I mean, one of the. Biggest, the most value that we've gained from working with you is really simple, SOP framework of having beginning of day procedures and end of day procedures, um, you know, truck checklists, like things like this.
Just very basic, basic things. It's one thing to develop these SOPs, and as business owners we're always trying to build up our playbook. We are trying to, you know. Put our, make our business in writing. So it's like, here's how everybody is trained by, and this is how we follow procedure so that we can start to scale.
Right? Yes. But this is where your gift comes in. 'cause we can all sit down and write SOPs. Yes. So, oh great. I need an SOP. We can sit down and write an SOP. Um, but. Following, adhering and holding accountable to the SOP is a whole nother thing. Yes. So how do you teach mid-management to do that? What does it look like?
Yes. So number one, make sure you have the SOPs. We talked about that. We can all do that. And then it goes into implementing it and how you present it. Okay. So I can't hold anyone accountable if no one knows what exists out there. Right. And I hate to break it to everyone, but standing in front of the room and reading an SOP to the group and then saying, everyone got it.
Great. You're gonna fail. It's not gonna happen afterwards, uh, because there's no buy-in. So when you go and train on an SOP, I always say you gotta start with the why. Why is this being created? Why does the company need it? How does it personally affect the, the. The audience you're presenting it to. So let's just use having a clean truck as an example.
We come up with a whole SOP for how we're gonna have clean trucks, what it should look like. If I go to the team and I go, okay, everyone, here's how you clean your truck and what we expect and we're good, it's not gonna resonate. But if I go in front of that team and I say. I want you to look at two pictures of a truck.
I have one that's really clean and one with the McDonald's wrappers or fast food wrappers in the dashboard. And I say, which these, which of these, uh, trucks with the technician would you trust more? And they're gonna tell me, and then I'm gonna say, well, why, why do you say that? Mm-hmm. And the truth of the matter is perception's reality.
Got it. For, for customers. So there's, there's a whole way you can present it that gets buy-in that makes them think and take ownership. And then you can talk about. How long it takes to look for tools, and if they're spending that much time, how much money did we lose in a day? How could we have gotten one more job?
And how would've that have affected your commission? They need to see the impact. So that's kind of step one, is let them understand and discover the why behind your process, and then you're gonna try and so your second step is to. Present it to them. Um, now you can do this a couple ways, but I'm a big fan of goes back to the education days show and tell and saying, okay, here's what you do.
We're gonna do it together. Here's how you have the clean truck. Let's go out to the trucks and actually clean them together. And follow this process. Let's actually practice a phone call in how we want that phone call to sound and go. And you're going to do it because it's the whole idea. You can read how to ride a bike, but until you're actually riding a bike, you don't, it's not internalized.
You don't really know it. You just know about it. So they need to go through the process of whatever you're teaching them, get hands-on experience with them. Mm-hmm. And then your third and final step is you need an assessment. And this is huge. Yes. This is the most commonly misstep. Mm-hmm. If you find yourself saying, well, I showed them how to do it, or I told them what to do, it's not enough.
If you didn't say, well, did they actually learn it? So you need to have an assessment of some time type. It can be you're observing them, do the task, and you have a rubric where you're scoring them and making sure they hit all the components you wanted. It could be a little, I. A Kahoot game at the end, or a quiz game at the end where you're checking for key factual information.
Uh, it could be having them teach it to the group and you make sure they can teach it to someone else correctly. There's endless possibilities, but if you aren't marking off they know this, then you have no leg to stand on when they say, well, no one ever told me. If you've ever heard that, which we've never heard.
No one ever told me. Yeah. But if you say, Nope, here's your assessment. You completed it on this day. You scored this amount, you showed us you do it. The excuse is gone now. Right. And then you can, you can go from there, uh, you can go from there. That, those are kind of the key steps go about the why behind it.
Interactive. Training where they're, they're doing the task, they're asking questions about it, they're involved in it, and then as an assessment to check what they were able to retain. Great. So that is the, basically the three step framework to successful training. Yes. Look at you. I mean, it's so awesome.
One thing I love about working with you is you're very focused on feedback. Yes. And in regards to training, um, with technicians especially, um, or even mid-management, is. You know, how was your training, you know, how did you feel about this training process that you went through? It could be anything, but feedback is a gift and it should always be received as a gift, even if there's something that's painful that's being told to you.
But, um, but it's, it's been really wonderful at a plus pro to be able to approach my technicians in the morning huddle. We hired a. Slew of new techs this season and to approach them and say, Hey, how was your training? Oh my God, my training was amazing. Like, I feel so supported, I feel so good about what I'm doing.
Um, there's always things to learn and we try to incorporate training on a daily basis into our morning huddles. There's always something to train. Um, and but the follow up and the feedback is, like you say, that is, that is the, that is the missing, often missing piece to the puzzle. Yes. I have an idea. Um, actually.
And I, I told Jason this, um, sorry, Jason's my ops manager and um, production manager, and I said, Hey, Jason. Um, I want everybody to have their window cleaning tool belts on, on Monday morning's meeting, uh, huddle. And I want everybody to hit the window wall behind me. And I wanna see, we're gonna do a speed round of cleaning and interior window, and I wanna see how.
They're all doing it. Are they doing it the same? Are they not doing it the same? But even so that's a fun way to. Hold accountable, see the feedback, to see how is this training actually going because I, I'm not out in the field, you know, watching how they're cleaning all these windows. So I think there are fun ways to do that.
Yeah. And, um, I'm looking forward to this exercise, by the way. Really good. And what's great about that. Exercise that you're talking about too, is we are not always, we don't have to be the smartest person in the room. So the great thing about the feedback, and especially some of those technicians that have been in the field, but they may do something slightly different that saves them time or is really effective and you're going.
Wait, that's really good. We want to make that standardized across the board, so it is always good to kind of check back in and see what little adjustments they may have made over time to either go, no, you have to reset. Remember, this is how we do it. Or, oh, that's really great. Let's make that a thing across the board for our team.
And so I love, yes, yes. I love that. Like, oh, you just taught me a trick I didn't know in 25 years. Why didn't I think of that? It happens all the time, by the way. I mean, it does. Yeah, we know what we know and until we know something different, then that's what we know. Yes, yes, exactly. Um, so like, management is, and, and we're talking about taking, because we go back to the E-Myth, right?
Yes. Where you have a technician, a manager, and an entrepreneur. Mm-hmm. And there's people like myself, I started as a technician. And I was managing this company and, but now I'm an entrepreneur, more of the visionary and, and, and that creator. Right. So, you know, what we're talking about right now is where you specialize, is taking that technician and bringing them up to a management level.
Yeah. And I gotta say, it's so hard, and you're right, because a lot of people feel like, yes, we're we just, there's all these things. To manage. Yes. Um, but the leadership component is, that is very special. Mm-hmm. And, um, because until people respect you. Yes, as a manager, if they don't have respect for you, if that follow through and that follow up and the accountability piece and the feedback isn't present, then I feel like people lose respect for the manager.
Am I, am I on the right page? Can you talk about hundred percent? Right. So there's a big thing with that. Um, especially if you're bringing someone that was with their peers in that position. Now they're moving up. There's a. Big jump that has to happen of we are, we're friends outside of work. I can be your friend outside of work, but I have to be the leader and manager first and not, not lead or manage based off of likability, but what is best for the company.
Mm-hmm. And have the company's interests at heart. So when you make that, that jump, you have to have structure in place and you have to be consistent. Uh, there's a saying out there that trust happens with consistency over time. Hmm. I'm not consistent and I'm not consistent. Over a period of time, you will lose trust in me.
And then what happens is managers will come to me and they'll be like, well, I tried it and it didn't work. I'm like, well, how long did you try it for? Two days. Well, your team has now gotten used to, we used to call it like. The flavor, the flavor of the week. Like if we just write this out, it will disappear.
And so just, we like to think we grow up as adults, but we still have some childlike tendencies. We will push the boundaries and go, do you really mean this? Like, is this really gonna happen? Mm-hmm. And so we wait to see is this around to stay or is this just something we're trying out and we don't really have to do?
And so if you aren't consistent in it and giving that feedback, then. Then they might not pick up the new implementations you go to implement right away because they're waiting because history has taught them, Hey, they don't really check up on this all the time. This we eventually slack off on on this.
So you have to be consistent with, it gives them regular feedback and it also helps consistency also, uh, counteracts favoritism. Because if you go and check my trek this week, we'll just. Stick with that example, but you aren't checking everyone's regularly or you aren't always randomly choosing people.
I'm gonna feel singled out, or if you write me up for something, but I saw someone else get away with it for a month. I don't feel like it's fair. So whatever. Going back to that SOP, whatever you implement, you also need a, how am I gonna track this? How am I gonna hold people responsible for it? Because without that, to your point, Sheila, you're gonna lose respect from your team over time because they go, you aren't consistent with what you're implementing.
Right. And it factors in. Yeah. Okay. So there's, there's a couple things I wanna talk about there. You know, first of all, um, this whole thing about trust and change, and, you know, we hear this all the time, but serial entrepreneur is the chasing the shiny things all the time. And we like, oh, we have this new idea and ditch what we were doing before.
We're gonna go in this direction now, and I can tell you my team. I mean, it, it, it, it literally became a problem. Yeah. But like Sheila, I mean, nothing's taking hold because we're not staying focused. Mm-hmm. And so this was a big change that we are going through in the company and I. Um, and so now, yes, like as a leader, I'm trying to stay very focused on the direction we're going and trying to get everybody heading towards the same goal.
And so now getting management behind, you know, implementing these things that we're staying focused on. Um, because implementing all the, the structure, right? Because how can we grow on scale without the structure? And one tool that you gave us that. Changed. It really changed the way that we, that this happened at, at a plus Pro, and that was your project implementation worksheet because you trained us like, okay, we've got this idea.
Great, let's run it through the implementation worksheet. Let's vet it all the way through because. It, it, it takes you through the steps of let's dissect this idea and then let's collectively as a team say, is this worth the time and the effort? Yay or nay? Yes. Great. Now we've got all the steps and let's set this as a goal, and then let's, let's attack the goal.
And that is something that was absolutely lacking before. It's kind of like beginning with the end in mind. Yes. You taught us how to just. Think differently about all these grandiose ideas and say, all right, let's put it into a pr. Like let's start with a procedure. Let's say, let's run it through the, the implementation worksheet.
Yes. And we had a lot of fun as a team doing that. Um, Jason, mid-manager, like as, as you have trained him, I mean, he loved running it through and he was holding me accountable to that all the time. Yes. So, you know, by design it, it's, it's beautiful. It's a huge deal because, okay, I'm a giant nerd. I love my stats, but one of them is 70% of changes in companies fail.
So that means you go to make a change at your company and 70% of the time is the average that it will fail. And the reason that happens. Generally speaking, and most of the time is poor planning. Yeah, because let's be honest with ourselves, planning is not the exciting part of change. You want to be like, I have this great idea.
Here's the outcome I want, let's jump in and do it right, like make it happen. That's great. We don't wanna lose the enthusiasm, but we also have to go, okay, well what's our timeline? Who needs to be involved in this? Who is going to lead this change? Um, what are the potential roadblocks we might not be seeing or thinking about that we're gonna get weak in?
If we had just paused and thought we would've been able to go, oh yeah, that's gonna be a hiccup we're gonna have to work through. Mm-hmm. How are we going to measure this? Another thing that can happen is we as owners can have something brought to our attention and we think it's happening everywhere, right?
Like we get that upset customer call, we get, um, a bad review and we go, we got, we kind, it's our baby, it's our company. And we go, okay, we got. You know, code red, everyone come together. We got, we gotta make a big change. And that is why we talked about earlier. Data is so important because the first thing you should do is go, okay, let me take the emotion out of this where I'm not acting.
Off of emotion. Mm-hmm. Lemme go see how many bad reviews do we really have. Does this, does this justify a change in our process? Right. Or is it an exception that yes, we have to address and we have to take seriously? Was it more of a one-on-one conversation with the individual then? Whole, everyone come together.
We're, we're gonna redo everything or we have to regroup. You wanna be realistic in what's really going on in my company was the data. Tell me now that I have that, let's make a plan. How are we gonna implement it? What are the roles? What are our timelines? What are our responsibilities? Now go run with it.
Mm-hmm. And sometimes that can be done in an hour meeting. 'cause the change is simple enough. Sometimes it's, we're gonna need a couple days to think through this and plan it out. So just sequence. Yeah, no, that's, that's awesome. And you know what I'm thinking about too, and it never even dawned on me and um, you know, a lot of, a lot of companies are learning about EOS Yes.
Or Freedom Operating systems. Mm-hmm. And, you know, these are when as we continue to grow our companies, we need to have structure just like what we're talking about right now. Yeah. And something like. Going back to the project implement implementation worksheet and whatnot. I mean, that is teaching. So if you have your visionary and your integrator and like you've, you're bringing this person up into this integrator role, those worksheets basically train them how to be an integrator, right?
Three. Three. Here we go. How do we take this vision that so and so had and how do we like make this happen? What? You know, how am I gonna, how am I gonna do this? And it, it literally is the framework and the guideline to get them to start thinking that way. Yes. Yeah. And, and it clarifies those expectations because an integrator change agent, you, there's all all different terms out there for the same type of role, but they have to know.
Do I have freedom to run with this and you just expect this outcome and however I get to the outcome is good, or do I need more? Mm-hmm. Be more detailed. Is there a certain thing specifically you're looking for? So the example I give with this is if everyone listening to this, and I took a P piece of paper and I said, draw a house, everyone's house is gonna look a little bit different, right?
Like if we all held up our papers, they'll all be a little bit different. And if I am the person going, whose expectation is to build a house, and I'm going, well, why didn't you put a roof on that? I thought it was common sense. Every house would have a roof. Or why didn't, why didn't you draw four windows?
You, we know we need four windows. If you don't think what the end objective is, it's gonna change what? What instructions you give. Do I need an exact replica of my house and I'm giving detailed instructions and measurements so it turns out exactly how I'm visioning? Am I going? As long as it has a roof and a door, go with it.
Got it. And if we got find that it's gonna be different for everyone and then there's gonna be frustration. 'cause someone's going, I thought you just wanted a roof in a door and you're going, no, I wanted these measurements. The it to look exactly like this, it, it changes. So, yeah. And, and that's where as the leader mm-hmm.
Um, whether you are management, integrator, visionary, owner, whatever it is. Yes. But when you're in that leadership role, being as clear about the expectation is the kindest that you can be. Yes. Right? Yes. And that is, um, to, to say, okay, everybody, I want you to go and. Do you, it's time for your morning truck, truck, truck, truck checklist.
I was having a hard time with that. Um, so I, everybody knows the procedure. Everybody's gonna come back here and I wanna be able to see, um, 10 inspections on my desk with like, like just being very specific about how much time and what needs to be there or. I mean, hopefully they've already been trained on that, but I think that, yeah.
'cause otherwise people will go out and be like, eh, whatever. You know? Yeah. I thought you meant this. Exactly. And so I thought, I'm thinking I did a great job. And you're going, no. It's like when I tell my daughter to clean her room, her version of clean and my version of clean are two very different things and stuffed animals shoved under the bed doesn't.
Quite meet my standards, right? But I have to, I have to really go through, this is what I mean when I say clean your room and, and how it will look. That, that plays into it. So, Amanda, what is your why? I mean, you obviously love this, you're passionate about it and you fell into the home services space, but what is it that, what is it that you love about training?
You're, you're essentially a trainer. Yes. Of trainers. Yes. Yes. I love unlocking people's potential. Because what it is, is it is there, someone just needs to give them the tools to be successful with it. Mm-hmm. So being able to unlock it and give them the tools to be successful and then have an impact not only on their careers, but whoever their is on their team.
It, it has a trickle effect. It affects everyone. Mm-hmm. Uh, if I can help them be better managers, leaders, then their team gets better training their team gets. Better development, and then they're progressing in their careers. And so I get a ton of fulfillment from that. Uh, and so that's, that's why I'm passionate about what I do.
I love it. I love it. Um, and what can, I mean, I'm gonna kind of ask this question, but Yeah. What is the hardest kind of protege you've ever had? Like, what is the hardest, um. Obviously not calling names, but a situation where like the hardest to transition somebody to get that train, uh, to that the management mindset.
What, what, what is like the worst scenario? So there's two traits I can think of that people often have, have to overcome. Okay? One is letting go of the task because in their mind, I got this position because I was good at these things. And if I give those things up to other people. What's my role, or who am I or what's my value?
Uhhuh, and that's always a fear. And so they can really hold onto these tasks where I'm going. You need to make time to lead your team or coach your team, and they won't give up those tasks because no one can do it as good as I do it. And you have to change that mindset. And if no one can do it as good as you guess what that's on you for not developing your team.
Right. That's what it comes back to. So that's, that's one thing that is kind of a, a change of mindset that has to happen. Sure. Uh, the other one that can come into play is just defensiveness of I know it all. And if I don't, they use, they use knowledge to. Be the expert. Mm-hmm. And so there's some holding onto the knowledge of, I don't wanna give this away, or I wanna be the only one.
'cause then you depend on me and they isolate themselves. Got it. Gosh. Share it like, okay, your goals to, to build your team. So those, those two items can cause the most hiccups. Okay. So is that kind of a hint? Like if I'm an owner and I am, have somebody that maybe I would want you to train. Um, if I identify these, um, um, these, you know, uh, traits or whatnot, yeah, this person, then I maybe kind of like, okay, wait, is this the right person kind of thing, right?
I put a timeline on, right? Like be, I think anyone can overcome it, but if you haven't been clear with them, like, I need you to let this go, or Here's what I want your role to be, they don't know what they're working towards, right? Then it can be hard. So I always put, I say, put an expiration date on it. Go, okay, we're gonna try it for this long.
We're gonna see what happens. This is the benchmarks we want to see, then you're good. But if you're gonna keep pouring time and someone doesn't want it, it's not the right position. And you and you. You've had those clear conversations of the, with them, of this is what I expect, this is where I want to go, then yeah, it is time to look at, do I have the right person in the right seat on, on the bus?
Sure. Sure. Awesome. Well, um, so are you gonna be at the huge convention? I am. Come find us. Contractor in charge will be there. Okay. Are you speaking. I am not speaking this time. Okay. Lynn. Lynn will be okay. We'll be talking about leads there, but uh, as was mentioned, we have different components of, uh, of our business.
So if we can help you come find us, uh, great. And I'd love to see you all in person. Great. And are you gonna have a booth at the trade show? We are. Okay, good. Good, good, good. All right. Well that's amazing. And I just, um, I, I love. Being able to share this level of experience and knowledge and just that you have in regards to this very painful topic.
I can't tell you how many times over the years I've been at different conventions or with other business, it doesn't matter what kind of business it is. No, um, training is such a major pain point and such a very difficult thing to figure out and implement into a company. Um, and you know, the, the biggest takeaways that I get from you, Amanda, are I.
That setting the expectation, being very clear about the expectation and um, and, and that holding people accountable, having a way to be able to that follow up and that feedback. Um, those are really like the two components that again, we like, oh, come into my company, we're gonna show you how to do this thing.
Yes. Okay, great. Then throw you out to the wolves and you get devoured, right? Yes. So set them up for success. Yeah, sure. Awesome, awesome. Well, is there anything else that you'd like to share with our guests today? No, I have been so grateful to to be here. Thank you for having me. If anyone has any questions about.
How do I train, how do I make my training more effective? Or you need training for your managers to help them fulfill that role and reach their potential. Please reach out. Okay. Please come find us. But yeah, I'm great to be here. Yeah, make sure that, so of course I know how to get ahold of you, but make sure that you have, will you share with me, um, what your, you know, just like your.
However you want people to contact you if they wanna reach out to you before the huge convention in August. Yes. Otherwise, of course they can go see you at the trade show booth, um, for contractor in charge. But if you'll share that with me, I'll put it in the show notes. Perfect. Then that way people can reach out to you, Amanda.
Yes, yes. I will give you my email so, uh, I can get it here real quick too. So my email is a Powell, P-O-W-E-L-L, at contractor in charge.com. Perfect. There you go, everybody. Well, thank you again, Amanda. This has been such a fruitful conversation, so well needed, especially for the home service space. And there's no doubt I'm talking to one of the best in regards to, um, you, you bring such a personal relationship to your, to your training, the way that you work with people.
And I know that firsthand and I really feel like you're part of our team. Here at a plus Pro. And, um, I mean, you are, you, you're part of my leadership team. That's the way I look at it. And, um, so anyway, I'd love to see your value grow with other companies and, um, and just encourage people to, to dive in it.
One final question. Yeah. When working with Amanda Powell or anybody that could come in and, and teach and, and really teacher train mid-management, is there a point where you say like, okay, we're good, or is this like a continual, like a continuous education? Yeah. Um, and how long does it typically take? I think that's an important question.
Yeah. So the, the answer is, it depends on what your goals and objectives are, right? If you go, I wanna get this person here, then we're gonna build a timeline with it and say, great, here's, here's our expiration date of when we will. We'll meet that or aim to meet that. Then there might be just check-ins for maintaining, right?
Everyone needs, needs a coach. You're gonna have someone constantly. So there are people I work with where they go, this is what we want, let's cover this topic, and then we're gonna run with it from there. And that's all we do. And then there's some that go, you know, we want the ongoing, just so we can maintain and talk about the different scenarios that pop up so we have a sounding board.
Sure. Um, so the answer to that is, I know it's not a final. But it, it does depend on, on what you want. It all depends. Yeah. But I do have a set training program that's like, we will give you the tools and the information, and if you want support with it afterwards, we'll support afterwards. So, hello my friend.
This is Sid. Thank you again so much for taking your time to listen to today's episode. I hope you got some value from it. And listen, anything that was covered, uh, any of the resources, any of the books, any of the tools, anything like that is in the show notes, so it's easy for you to find and check it out.
And also, I wanna let you know the. Mission for the huge convention and for this podcast is to help our blue collar business owners like you and I, to gain financial and time freedom through running a better business. And we do that in four ways. Number one is our free weekly newsletter. It's called a Huge Insider.
I hope you subscribe. It is the most valuable newsletter for the home service industry. Period, paid or otherwise, and this one's free. Next is the huge foundation's education platform. That is, we've got over 120 hours of industry specific education and resources for you. And every month we do, uh, a topical webinar and we do question and answer with seven and eight figure business owners.
And it's available to you for a $1 trial for seven days. Next, of course, is the huge convention or the huge convention. If you haven't been, you gotta check it out. It's every August this year it's in Nashville, Tennessee. That's August 20th through 22nd and 2025, and it is the largest and number one rated.
Trade show and convention for home service business builders. We've got the biggest trade show, so you can check out all the coolest tools and meet the vendors and check out the software to run your business. And it's got, we've got, um, education, world class education and educators and speakers that will teach you how to run a better business.
And it's the best networking opportunity that you can have within the home service business. And then lastly, if you wanna pour jet fuel in your business. Check out the huge Mastermind now, it's not for everyone. You gotta be at over $750,000 of revenue and you're building toward a million, 5 million, 10 million in the next five years.
And it is a network, and a mentorship and a mastermind of your peers, and we help you understand and implement the Freedom operating system. We can go into more detail, but you can get all the information on all four of these programs and how we'll help you advance your business quickly just by going to the huge convention.com.
And scroll down, click on the freedom path. Or of course you can find the links here in the show notes. So, sorry, I feel like I'm getting a little bit wordy, but I just wanna let you know of the resources that are available to you to help you accelerate and advance your beautiful, small business. So keep on growing, keep on learning, keep advancing.
And if you'd like to show. Go ahead. I mean, if you would go and take 90 seconds and give us a review on iTunes, then subscribe and share it, man. It would really mean the world to us. It would help other people, and as we continue our mission to help people just like you and me. So thanks again for listening.
 

20: The Jon Karmazyn Episode

In this episode of the Huge Transformations Podcast, hosts Sid Graef, Gabe Torres, and Sheila Smeltzer introduce the show’s purpose: bringing on seven- and eight-figure business owners to share genuine insights on running a home service business. Gabe interviews John Karras (from the Allentown, Pennsylvania area) to explore his journey from a one-person hustle to operating a multi-crew exterior cleaning company with 15–20 employees. John highlights pivotal moments in his business growth, the importance of peer support, and how taking quick action—and sometimes big leaps—can help you push through challenging stages. Finally, Sid wraps up with resources for listeners who want to grow and find mentorship opportunities through The Huge Convention, The Foundations platform, and The Huge Mastermind.
Show Notes
Host & Guest:
Hosts:
Sid Graef (Montana)
Gabe Torres (Nashville, TN)
Sheila Smeltzer (North Carolina)
Guest:
John Karras, owner of a large exterior cleaning business in Pennsylvania
Key Topics:
Origin Story: John stumbled into pressure washing by fixing a used pressure washer; grew from a solo side-hustle to a multiple-crew operation with an office manager, operations manager, and a sales team.
Scaling Challenges: Overcoming “bottleneck” phases by hiring strategically, seeking outside perspectives, and taking big, decisive action.
Entrepreneurial Mindset: John stresses the importance of community—connecting with other business owners for support, ideas, and expertise.
Advice: “Dream bigger than you think you can,” then find people who have done it already and learn from them.
Mentioned Resources:
The Huge Convention
The Foundations platform trial offer
The Huge Mastermind info page
The Huge Insider newsletter signup
The Huge Insider podcast downloadable action guide
Facebook group
Transcript
Sid Graef:Hello everyone. Welcome to the Huge Transformations podcast. I’m Sid Graef out of Montana.
Gabe Torres:I’m Gabe Torres here in Nashville, Tennessee.
Sheila Smeltzer:And I’m Sheila Smeltzer from North Carolina. We are your hosts and guides through the landscape of growing a successful home service business. We do this by interviewing the best home service business builders in the industry—folks that have already built seven- and eight-figure businesses, and they want to help you succeed.
Gabe Torres:Yep—no fake gurus on this show, just real-life owners who’ve been in the trenches and can help show you the way to grow profitably.
Sheila Smeltzer:We get insights and truths from successful business builders, and every episode is 100% experience and 0% theory.
Sid Graef:We are going to dig deep and reveal the good, the bad, and the ugly. Our guests will share with you the pitfalls to avoid and the keys to winning. In short, our guests will show you how to transform your home service business into a masterpiece.
Gabe Torres:Thanks for joining us on the wild journey of entrepreneurship. Let’s dive in.
Gabe Torres:Hey guys, this is Gabe Torres here in Nashville, Tennessee, with the Huge Transformations podcast, and you guys are in for a treat today with my buddy John Karras, who’s joining us from somewhere in Pennsylvania.
John Karras:You got it.
Gabe Torres:Where is this “somewhere”?
John Karras:Allentown area.
Gabe Torres:Okay, I still don’t know where that’s at, but—
John Karras:It’s an hour north of Philadelphia.
Gabe Torres:Okay, I’ve been there. I’ve been to Cherry Hill, Philadelphia area. Cool, so yeah, excited for you to join us. Thank you, John, for taking some time. I know you have a lot going on. You have a big company, been in business for a while, but for the folks who don’t know who you are—which I’m sure people will get more familiar, as it seems like you’re doing some more speaking stuff—for those who haven’t met John, what’s the quick backstory on how you got started in the service industry?
John Karras:So, my background originally is in the construction space. I graduated college and was working for a general contracting company for about 10 years, but I’d always had side hustles and an entrepreneurial spirit. Back in 2012, I got tired of construction and was really looking for something else. One night in New Jersey, we were on a little family vacation, and inspiration struck—pun and no pun intended, because there was a big thunderstorm that night. We had little kids, they were up all night, and I was just brainstorming what I could do. I started going down the path of exterior cleaning, pressure washing, carpet cleaning—somewhere in that realm. Before we knew it, two months later we established a business plan, contacted a local bank, got a small SBA loan for some equipment, fired up a website, and business was on.
Gabe Torres:Side note real quick—what was one of the side hustles you did in college?
John Karras:Yeah, so I was into cars, Volkswagens in particular. I had a VW GTI and I was into lighting—this was before all the LED stuff was good, so it was xenon headlights and whatnot. I’d take the headlights, disassemble them, upgrade them, and then sell them on eBay for like five or six hundred bucks. I was doing this in college, putting the old ones in our oven in our dorm room to bake them so I could take them apart. In college, that was great money, so that was a fun side hustle.
Gabe Torres:That’s awesome. So, on that dark, stormy night in New Jersey, how did you land on exterior cleaning?
John Karras:There was a guy at my construction company who had an old pressure washer in his shed. He brought it in and said, “If you can fix it, you can keep it.” I got it running via YouTube, pressure-washed my house (not knowing what I was doing), started my deck, and halfway through, the thing exploded—smoke everywhere. So I was left with a half-finished deck. I went on Craigslist looking for a cheap used machine to finish my project, but I saw a listing that said “Commercial pressure washing business—we’ll train you to start your own company.” And I thought, “Wait, this is a real thing?” I did some homework, and that’s how I found out about the entire industry. I ended up contacting that guy, buying a truck from him, and he subcontracted me a few bank drive-throughs so I could get my feet wet, literally. That’s how it started.
Gabe Torres:Fast forward to today—size, number of people, years in business?
John Karras:We’re starting our 13th year. We’re in the Lehigh Valley area, about an hour north of Philly. We run six service trucks and at peak season we’re 15–20 employees: office manager, operations manager, sales team. It’s been a ton of fun—lots of ups and downs, but I wouldn’t trade it for the world.
Gabe Torres:What has been one of the hardest points for you? Was it the startup, or now that you’re much bigger?
John Karras:There are a few pivotal moments, but early on it was tough because I didn’t jump in full-time. It was a side hustle for around eight months. I had a website, was pounding the pavement with flyers, mailboxes, signs, anything to match my nine-to-five income. It was a lot of sacrifice—two little kids at home, a wife, a full-time job. Eventually we pushed through that, but after we grew a bit, I was still doing it all—field work, sales, scheduling—total bottleneck. I hired someone to help in the field, then trained him to go on his own. Then we realized I needed an office person, at least part-time. We got fractionalized at maybe $500k to $650k in revenue. In 2018, I got into a room with some bigger owners—a mastermind—and realized I needed to hire a full-time office manager, an operations manager, a full-time sales guy, all in about 45 days. It was crazy but an unlock. It really opened my eyes to the power of structure.
Gabe Torres:Yeah, and just seeing someone else say, “Oh, that’s normal,” right?
John Karras:Exactly. You feel stuck but they’re like, “Here’s what to do.” You write everything down and then go implement. It’s the fastest way to get where you want to go. Suddenly, I’m no longer the bottleneck, and it was just a big epiphany. I remember the first time my new sales guy sold a $2,000 package—I struggled to do that! When someone you hire performs better than you did at that role, that’s a great feeling.
Gabe Torres:So if you had to give 2012 John Karras a piece of advice?
John Karras:(1) You’re capable of far more than you think. My thinking was so small in 2012. We’re beyond my wildest dreams now. (2) To tap into that potential, don’t try to figure it out alone. Build relationships with people who’ve done it. Learn from them and implement. Not everything will work for you, but it’ll get you ahead so much faster than banging your head against a wall trying to figure it out alone.
Gabe Torres:Man, that’s great. Thank you so much for spending time with us, John. Thanks for sharing your story.
John Karras:Absolutely—always a pleasure chatting, Gabe.
Gabe Torres:Same here. Talk soon.
Sid Graef:Hello my friend, this is Sid. Thank you again so much for taking time to listen to today’s episode. I hope you got some value from it, and anything we covered—resources, books, tools—is in the show notes for easy reference.
The mission for the Huge Convention and for this podcast is to help blue-collar business owners gain financial and time freedom by running a better business. We do that in four ways:
Our free weekly newsletter, the Huge Insider. Subscribe—it’s the most valuable newsletter for the home service industry, paid or otherwise.
The Huge Foundations education platform—over 120 hours of industry-specific education and monthly topical webinars with Q&A sessions featuring seven- and eight-figure business owners. You can try it for $1 for seven days.
The Huge Convention. If you haven’t been, check it out. It’s every August; this year it’s in Nashville, Tennessee, August 20–22, 2025. It’s the largest convention and trade show for home service business builders—world-class education, an enormous trade show, and unbeatable networking.
Finally, if you want to pour jet fuel on your business, check out the Huge Mastermind. It’s not for everyone—you need to be at over $750,000 in revenue, building toward $1 million, $5 million, or $10 million. It’s an elite network for mentorship and implementing the Freedom Operating System.
You can get information on all four of these at thehugeconvention.com. Scroll down or click on the Freedom Path, or check the show notes here for direct links. We want you to keep learning, keep growing, and keep advancing your business. If you like this show, please take 90 seconds to give us a review on iTunes, subscribe, and share—it means the world to us, and it’ll help other people, too.
Thanks again for listening. We’ll see you on the next episode.
 

19: The James Hatfield Episode

Get ready to rethink how you connect with customers. In this episode, Chief Revenue Officer James Hatfield shares how he went from starting a simple painting and pressure-washing business to leading sales at LiveSwitch, a cutting-edge video-communication platform. His story covers building companies from nothing, teaching entrepreneurship to people in prison, and ultimately discovering the power of fast, real-time video calls in industries ranging from law enforcement to pro sports—and now home services.
James explains how this near-instant video technology gives service professionals a huge advantage: it saves wasted drives to job sites, increases speed-to-lead, and generates better customer interaction (and more sales). Whether you’re in window cleaning, plumbing, painting, or anything else, you can “claim your property” with a simple QR code sticker so clients can instantly reach you via video. He also dives into building a strong network, harnessing LinkedIn to connect with industry leaders, and positioning yourself as the face of your business online.
If you’re looking for tips on how to amplify your sales, streamline your workflow, and stand out in a crowded market, James’s insights will help you knock on virtual doors and grow your service business faster than ever.
Show NotesGuest and Company:
James Hatfield, CRO at LiveSwitch
References and Mentions:
ABC Television Show: Free Enterprise (about teaching entrepreneurship to incarcerated individuals)
WWE Thunderdome (example of LiveSwitch’s large-scale live video)
Tennessee Titans (security and event management insight)
D2D (Door-to-Door) experts in Orlando
LinkedIn (key platform for building your professional network)
Resources (Mentioned Every Time):
The Huge Insider Newsletter Sign-up
The Huge Insider Podcast Downloadable Action Guide
The Foundations Platform (Trial Offer)
The Huge Mastermind Info Page
Facebook Group
Sid Graef:Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Huge Transformations podcast. I’m Sid Graef out of Montana.
Gabe Torres:I’m Gabe Torres here in Nashville, Tennessee.
Sheila Smeltzer:And I’m Sheila Smeltzer from North Carolina. We’re your hosts and guides through the landscape of growing a successful home service business. We do this by interviewing the best home service business builders in the industry—folks that have already built seven- and eight-figure businesses, and they want to help you succeed.
Gabe Torres:Yep. No fake gurus on this show—just real-life owners who have been in the trenches and can help show you the way to grow profitably. We get insights and truths from successful business builders, and every episode is 100% experience, 0% theory. We’re going to dig deep and reveal the good, the bad, and the ugly. Our guests will share the pitfalls to avoid and the keys to winning. In short, our guests will show you how to transform your home service business into a masterpiece. Thanks for joining us on the wild journey of entrepreneurship. Let’s dive in!
Sid Graef:Hello, my friend! Welcome back to the Huge Transformation podcast. It’s Sid Graef. I’m so excited today. I get to introduce you to James Hatfield. James Hatfield is the CRO—that’s the Chief Revenue Officer, essentially the money guy—over at LiveSwitch. LiveSwitch is a real-time video platform with a lot of applications. You’re going to learn about it, but here’s the thing that you’re going to love:
We go through James’s journey from right out of high school (even before college) when he started a painting company and a power-washing company. It was really humble beginnings—he started knocking on doors. He’d say he always expected people to say “No,” so he was never disappointed. That eventually built into a business with employees and a team, all based on knocking on doors and just going for it.
Then he “accidentally” got into financial technology—FinTech—and helped build a company up to a 10-figure (that’s billion-dollar) business. They sold that business, and afterward, he and the founder started doing philanthropy, teaching entrepreneurship to people in prison. So incarcerated folks learning about entrepreneurship, and ABC Television actually made a show about it called Free Enterprise. Fascinating story. Now James is back in business as CRO at LiveSwitch, and he’s done so many things. One thing I admire most is that if he believes in an idea that has merit and value, he’s willing to knock on the door, pick up the phone—he says, when he started doing this, he was making 120 cold calls a day—and it transformed how a lot of us in the home service industry do business.
I hope you have as much fun as I did interviewing James and getting to know him. So here we go, our guest today, James Hatfield, CRO of LiveSwitch.
Sid Graef:Welcome back, everybody. This is Sid Graef, and this is the Huge Transformations podcast, part of the Huge Convention. I’ve got a great guest on today. We were just chatting offline about the secret background of the service businesses and trades—like, “Why hasn’t anybody made a documentary about the guy that climbed a ladder and painted a house?” Right? I get to introduce everybody to James Hatfield. James is currently the CRO (Chief Revenue Officer) at LiveSwitch. James, thanks for being here; it’s good to see you, man. How are you?
James Hatfield:I’m great, Sid. Thanks for having me. I’m excited to share a little bit and talk about some good, bad, and ugly stories of transition.
Sid Graef:Cool, cool. So right now, if people peel back the layers a little bit: “He’s got a position with three initials in a technology startup—what does that have to do with home services?” But instead of starting where you are, let’s go back. You had a business painting houses and a power-washing company. Tell us about that—what are the humble beginnings for James?
James Hatfield:Yeah, usually they say the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree, right? My grandfather—his dad died really young, and he was the oldest of many kids, so he dropped out of high school at 16, went to work at a tire shop, and he’s a self-made man. Then my father—his dad also died young—and built his own home, coming from nothing. So their dreams for me were very simple. My grandfather said, “Hey, you need to be a painter.” My father said, “You need to be a plumber. That’s how you’ll make ends meet.”
So I went the painting direction. I was like, “Alright, time to start paying my own way.” I have no fear of going up to any door, any house in any neighborhood, and knocking on it asking for a job. In this case, it was painting a house. I learned how to paint a house, apprenticed myself, and didn’t take too long to do it the right way. I put a process together, and then I went selling. That’s where it all began. I ended up growing that into a painting and power-washing company with multiple crews. We painted homes in different neighborhoods of all sizes, even corporate companies, so we did okay.
Sid Graef:You said you have no hesitation about knocking on somebody’s door and asking for work—like, “Do you need your house painted?” Was that something you learned or was it inherent?
James Hatfield:I just don’t have any shame. I’m not worried about people telling me “No.” In fact, I expect everybody to tell me “No,” so it just rolls off my back. I heard this story about Jack Nicklaus, the golfer, one of the best of all time. They asked him, “What’s the difference on a Sunday round?” He said, “When I hit it in the woods, I just pop it back out and forget about it. The other guys, they dwell on it for the next three holes.” It’s the same with knocking on doors—I expect a “No,” and I’m never disappointed. Eventually, you get a “Yes,” and that keeps you coming back for more.
Sid Graef:That’s a great perspective. Most people—the thought of knocking on doors or cold-calling can paralyze them, but you say, “I expect a ‘No,’” so you’re hardly ever disappointed.
James Hatfield:Never. I expect it.
Sid Graef:So how did you transition from building that painting and washing company into the corporate world, banking, and eventually LiveSwitch? What happened? Was your dad disappointed you didn’t become a plumber?
James Hatfield:Definitely disappointed! I didn’t want to be under the house, dealing with all that. I was up on a ladder, but still…
What happened is, while running those companies, I found a weakness: I didn’t understand my financials well. So I put myself through state college, running my companies and taking night classes—back when college was affordable—so I could learn bookkeeping and accounting. I wanted to make sure the numbers added up. Right as I was graduating, I met a guy who had a landscaping company and laundromats. He had created this expert system at Duke University. You’d input a financial income statement and a balance sheet, and it would give you a plain-language report for small-business owners like me who didn’t really speak “accounting.” This was before AI, so we thought, “Let’s give it a shot.”
Back to my door-knocking mentality, but over the phone, I started making 300 cold calls a day to CPAs around the country—just hunting for a “Yes.” We turned that little startup into an Inc. 500 company for three years straight. It’s a multi-billion-dollar company now, sold to KKR.
Sid Graef:Nice jump—great job. Did you go from that business straight to LiveSwitch?
James Hatfield:No, after selling that financial technology company, I went into philanthropy. I started churches, and my partner started “Inmates to Entrepreneurs,” where we teach thousands of incarcerated men and women entrepreneurship. Because we both came from home service-based businesses, as well as FinTech, we had roots in that. We wanted to teach it and believed we could. It became an ABC Television show called Free Enterprise. After that, we wanted to build another billion-dollar company, so instead of starting from scratch, we bought a small one. We looked all over the world for a tech company with a unique “Coca-Cola recipe,” found one four years ago—LiveSwitch—which is actually 16 years old.
Sid Graef:Right, so that leads us to LiveSwitch. For people who don’t know, what is LiveSwitch?
James Hatfield:It’s something called WebRTC—Web Real-Time Communication—a super nerdy type of video streaming. It’s all about live video, connecting two people anywhere on the globe at extremely high speed, with real-time audio, data, or video streams. A big example is that we powered WWE during COVID—when they couldn’t have fans, we put big screens in the Florida Thunderdome so that fans at home could instantly react to a body slam. That’s the kind of real-time performance we handle.
Sid Graef:That’s amazing. When we first talked, you mentioned law enforcement usage, so how’d you get from WWE to home services?
James Hatfield:We started by working with the Washington D.C. Chief of Police to reinvent the 911 call, streaming right from a citizen’s phone to the responding officer. Government stuff takes forever, though. So we looked for other opportunities. We got in front of an NFL security guy for the Tennessee Titans—he loved it but also asked if it could solve small problems like checking across a stadium without driving his golf cart over. We realized we basically had a video walkie-talkie.
Then I have a friend in self-storage, a self-storage Hall of Famer. He said, “Bring this to self-storage,” so I ended up going to a big Las Vegas conference. While there, I accidentally ran into moving and storage companies, calling them 120 times a day. Finally, one guy, Wade Swikle, said, “James, you’ve no idea what you’ve got. Let me tell you how I’d use it in my moving business.” He explained how the biggest cost is driving out to a quote that might be a dead-end. Now he could simply take a live look over video first, then decide if it’s worth coming out. That was our tipping point. Then it spread to painters, power washers, plumbers, holiday-light installers, and more.
Sid Graef:Yes, that’s the neat thing about how everyday folks find new uses for a technology. So from your perspective, with your background in door-to-door, phone sales, and now all these new ways to communicate—what advice do you have for early-stage business owners trying to get more business?
James Hatfield:It depends on the type of business, but speaking to painters, power washers, that sort of thing: sometimes you just have to go knock on doors. Don’t rush into big loans or Google Ad spending if you don’t have the budget. Get scrappy. If I lost everything and had to start from scratch, I’d pick my neighborhoods, knock on doors, get those first sales, fulfill them, and then turn those into referrals and recurring revenue. There’s nothing fancy about it, but it’s how I’d do it. And if you want to build fast, once you’ve got some momentum, then you layer in marketing, networking, hiring, and so on.
Sid Graef:So let’s jump to where you are now at LiveSwitch. Something you said earlier that just blew my mind was how you can literally “claim” a water heater or breaker box with a QR code, so if something goes wrong, the homeowner scans the code on that piece of equipment and it connects them instantly to your business. That boxes out Google so they don’t call a random plumber.
James Hatfield:Exactly. That’s the new normal, I believe. All thanks to QR codes and smartphones. Put a sticker with your business name, phone, and a QR code on that water heater, breaker box, furnace—whatever. When it acts up, the homeowner sees your code right there, scans it, and a live video feed opens up. Or if you don’t have 24/7 coverage, it’s a drop-box video that they record for you, and you call back after reviewing. It’s all about instant connection and speed—race to the face. Thanks to Amazon Prime, people won’t wait around anymore, so if you’re not there fast, they’ll call someone else.
Sid Graef:In your crystal ball, how soon before that becomes the norm?
James Hatfield:It’s already here. It’s just a matter of mainstream adoption. But technology-wise, it’s ready to go right now.
Sid Graef:One mind-blowing scenario: You can have a technician who hates selling simply hand a tablet to the customer. Then your sales rep—wherever they are—instantly appears and does the upsell in real time. That’s brilliant.
James Hatfield:Yes, we see that every day. You make sure the right people do the right job. Don’t make your shy tech play both roles. Give them a simple device or an app on their phone, and someone else who’s great at sales can do it from anywhere—maybe even South Africa. It’s game-changing.
Sid Graef:So what pushback do you get?
James Hatfield:People say, “My customers won’t like it,” but that’s rarely true. Some say their team doesn’t want to be on video. Or they say, “We’ve been doing it the old way for 30 years,” but guess what—someone else is moving faster. People who adopt it end up saving hours of drive-time per day, closing more deals, so it speaks for itself.
Sid Graef:This is so interesting. As we wrap up, anything else you’d like to share?
James Hatfield:Yes, quickly: People underuse networking. Whether you’re in a new industry or established, build your network. Use LinkedIn. Post updates, connect with 20 people a day max, share your insights and your progress. You’ll be surprised by the opportunities that come your way.
Sid Graef:That’s fantastic. James, thanks so much for your time. We’ll put in the show notes how to find you. For those who want to learn more about LiveSwitch or your approach, where should they go?
James Hatfield:Head to LiveSwitch.com, book a demo, and specifically request me if you want to chat. Also, you can connect with me on LinkedIn. I love giving more than I take. If you start doing some of these new approaches, let me know how it’s going.
Sid Graef:Thanks again for coming on. I appreciate your time and expertise, James.
James Hatfield:Thank you, Sid.
Sid Graef:Hello, my friend! This is Sid Graef. Thank you again for listening. I hope you got some value today. Anything mentioned—resources, books, tools—are in the show notes, so it’s easy for you to find. Also, remember our mission: helping blue-collar business owners gain financial and time freedom by running a better business. We do that in four ways:
Our free weekly newsletter, The Huge Insider, which is the most valuable newsletter in home services—paid or otherwise.
The Huge Foundations education platform with over 120 hours of industry-specific content, plus monthly topical webinars and Q&A with seven- and eight-figure business owners. It’s a $1 trial for seven days.
The Huge Convention, held every August—in 2025 it’s in Nashville, Tennessee, from the 20th to the 22nd—the largest, top-rated trade show and educational event for home service business builders.
The Huge Mastermind, for businesses over $750K who want to accelerate growth toward $1M, $5M, or $10M in the next five years using the Freedom Operating System.
You’ll find all of this at thehugeconvention.com—just scroll down and click on the Freedom Path. Or check the show notes. If you like this show, please review us on iTunes, subscribe, and share. It really means the world to us. Thanks again for listening, and we’ll see you on the next episode!

18: The Scott Brothers Episode

In this episode, host Sid Graef welcomes the Scott brothers—Derek Scott and Colton Scott—of Scott’s Mobile Wash. They share their journey of moving from a scrappy, one-man weekend operation to a growing fleet-washing business employing multiple team members. The brothers talk candidly about restructuring their company twice, learning how to implement core values (“hungry, humble, professionalism”), and realizing that building a solid foundation of systems and culture is crucial for long-term success.
They also dig into the family element—Derek left Arkansas to start a power-washing venture in Tennessee, and soon convinced Colton to join him after high school. While it wasn’t always smooth sailing, the brothers emphasize how vital it is to build the business the right way from the start, rather than hustling forever without clear leadership or processes. Their motivation to succeed is further fueled by personal responsibilities—Colton was recently married, and Derek has a growing family on the way. Anyone at the earlier stages of business-building (or going through a rocky period of “people problems”) will resonate with their honest, boots-on-the-ground perspective.
Show Notes
Guests:
Derek Scott & Colton Scott, co-owners of Scott’s Mobile Wash (Fleet-washing & Power-washing, Nashville area)
Key Discussion Points:
Origins of Scott’s Mobile Wash – Derek’s leap of faith moving to Tennessee and spotting opportunities in the fleet-washing market.
Working as Brothers – The eight-year age gap, living together, and evolving from “just employees” to true business owners.
Scaling Up – Growth from a weekend hustle to a recurring-revenue model with multiple employees.
Facing Restructures – Outgrowing informal setups, implementing structured systems, and adding core values that weed out the wrong hires.
Core Behaviors – “Hungry, Humble, Professional,” and how this new clarity affects hiring, team alignment, and day-to-day operations.
Advice for Newer Entrepreneurs – Start strong with systems and vision to avoid costly do-overs later.
Resources
The Huge Insider newsletter signup
The Huge Insider podcast downloadable action guide
The Foundations platform trial offer
The Huge Mastermind info page
Facebook Group
Sid: Welcome back to the Huge Transformations podcast. This is Sid; I’m your host today, and I get to introduce you to the Scott brothers, Derek Scott and Colton Scott. They are the owners of Scott’s Mobile Wash—a fleet-washing, power-washing company just outside of Nashville, Tennessee. They’ve been at it for about seven years.
I really wanted to have them on the show, and I hope you enjoy this interview. Here’s why: because these guys are in the trenches, they’re in the fight, and they have rebooted and rebuilt their company. In their words, they have transformed it twice. They realized at one point they were making good money just through hustle and grit, but they didn’t have the systems they needed to reach their bigger goals. So they found a place where they could learn from business builders who were further down the road. They changed how they structured the company. Then two years later, they did it again, refining their processes and emphasizing core values—core behaviors.
We dig into that for a while, but the thing you’ll appreciate most—what I appreciated most—is that it reminded me of my own early bootstrap days, trying to figure it all out. Maybe you’re in that stage, too. Derek and Colton share how they grew from one guy with a truck to multiple employees and rapid growth, but they’re still in that build-it mode. You get to see how the sausage is made rather than only seeing someone’s polished results after a decade of hard work.
We’ll follow up with them in a year to see how far they’ve come, which I’m really excited about. So, without further ado, you’ve got to meet Derek and Colton Scott. Our audio quality isn’t amazing, but the content is rich. Stick with us. Thanks for joining—meet Derek and Colton.
Sid: Welcome back, everyone. It’s Sid with the Huge Transformations podcast. And today is a two-for-one, like we have never done this. We’ve got Colton Scott and Derek Scott, brothers from the— you’re in the Nashville area, correct?Derek Scott: Yes, sir. Yes, Nashville area.Sid: They’ve got a power-washing company that focuses on fleet washing, and we’re going to talk all about their journey and see what we can learn. Good afternoon, gentlemen—how are you?Colton Scott: Good to see you, we’re doing good.
Sid: So Derek and Colton I know from The Huge Convention, but primarily Derek and Colton are part of The Huge Mastermind—that’s where I’ve gotten to know them better. We see each other every quarter in Nashville, doing something cool and learning ways to expand your business. Let’s start off by talking about your company: the name of it, approximate size—whatever metric you want, whether employees, revenue, or the number of trucks you wash—just to give us a framework of where you are now. Then we’ll go back in time and pick up on your journey.
Colton: Yeah, so our company name is Scott’s Mobile Wash. We wash roughly 400 trucks a week, is where we’re at. Size-wise, we have about six employees.
Sid: Perfect. And which of you guys is primarily in charge of sales?Colton: That’s me, Colton.Sid: So when you walk into a place and say, “I’m from Scott’s Mobile Wash,” do they go, “Oh, are you Scott?”Colton: Yeah, they do. And I just say, “Yeah, that’s my name.” [laughs]
Sid: Exactly! So you guys are in the Nashville area. Let’s talk about family for a second. Derek, have you and Colton always worked together, or is this your first venture together as brothers?
Derek: Definitely our first. There’s an eight-year difference between us, so I’m eight years older. He was still in high school when I moved to Tennessee. I started the business in 2018, was doing it on the weekends, and had an opportunity to buy another company. Doing so gave me a chance to see if he wanted to come down and work full-time in the fleet-washing business. That happened in June of 2018.
There was some stuff we had to work through—not only as family, but also because of the age gap. He’d have been 18, I’d have been 26-ish. When there’s that age gap, you’re in different stages of life. But we worked through it. I’ll let him share his perspective on coming down at that young age.
Colton: Yeah, I definitely had to work through my immaturity from 18 to 24. At that time, I was just an employee; I had more of an employee perspective than an owner’s perspective. It’s definitely different now, that’s for sure.
Sid: So Colton, you’re 24 now and about to be 25?Colton: Yeah, in a couple of weeks.Sid: Best part about turning 25 is lower car-rental rates, right?Colton: Yeah, finally! [laughs]
Sid: Derek, you guys have been at it for about seven years. You built from a one-man operation to two, and now six employees. What were some of the biggest challenges early on? Actually, let me back up further: Derek, why did you pick mobile wash? Why was that your path?
Derek: Prior to owning my own business, I was a mechanic in Little Rock, Arkansas, and I was in charge of taking equipment to get washed. I saw how much money was spent on that, and I thought, “I could do this!” On a whim, literally, I said, “I’m moving to Tennessee and starting a power-washing business. I don’t know if it’ll be fleet or houses.” I bought a trailer in Arkansas that I knew I could run my systems off of, loaded it all up, and moved to Tennessee.
I had a job lined up but wanted ultimately to be my own boss. I’d work weekends and after hours to grow the business. Then I found someone looking to get out of the fleet-washing industry, so I bought his business. I had been doing more houses; I switched over to more fleet after the purchase. Then Colton graduated high school, came down, and the rest is history.
Sid: Wow, so when you told friends and family that you were going to move to Tennessee and start a power-washing business, who said you were crazy, and who said, “That’s awesome, go for it”?
Derek: [Laughs] You know, your parents try to be supportive, but also question if you’re sure. Because our parents live in Illinois, so we had no family down in Tennessee, no friends. It wasn’t like I could rely on local family, you know, “Hey, can I wash your car or something?” So that made it difficult and forced me to hustle. Social media was my advertising—just Facebook.
Sid: Colton, when you moved down, how gritty was it? Were you sleeping on couches, or in storage units? [laughs]
Colton: So when I moved, I lived in Derek’s apartment in Murfreesboro for a week, sleeping on his sofa, then he bought a house. I had no money—I was 18—so I lived with him for the first couple of years. We rode to work together every day. It was pretty vanilla in those first couple of years.
Derek: Yeah, basically my last day at my mechanic job was a Friday, I closed on a house on Monday, and we started full-time Tuesday.
Sid: No way, that’s wild. The bank underwriter was probably like, “Don’t say a word about quitting your job!”Derek: Exactly! [laughs]
Sid: Let’s talk about responsibilities now. Colton, you said you do sales, but are you also on the operations side? Derek, how do you divide everything?
Derek: You’d think with Colton being the “sales guy,” that’s how it goes. But we get a lot of word-of-mouth leads, so we haven’t had to do heavy prospecting. I do more of the mechanical side, behind-the-scenes stuff, and finances. Colton definitely has landed some big contracts that are our bread and butter, but we’ve been pretty fortunate with word-of-mouth.
Sid: So let’s talk about word-of-mouth. Do you encourage your clients to refer you? Or is it purely “do a great job and hope they spread the word”?
Colton: We don’t have a super-formal system. We show up consistently (because everything we do is recurring), do good work, and build trust. I’m checking in on our customers to make sure things are good, and that’s usually when I’ll ask, “Do you know any other companies?” But we don’t have a set referral program or anything.
Derek: The guys will also approach folks at gas stations. If they see a dirty company truck, they’ll ask, “Hey, do you have someone washing your stuff?” We also sometimes do a little incentive for them if they bring in new leads.
Sid: Awesome. So you’ve established a business, providing jobs for others, which is fantastic. Where do you see yourselves in three to five years?
Colton: I hope to be less in the field. We were out of the field for a bit, but we had to jump back in recently. So for me, I’d like to be done with being behind the gun in two or three years.
Derek: Yeah, that’s the plan. A little backstory: about three years in, we got comfortable because we were making enough to pay bills and take a vacation. But we realized, “What do we really want?” because there’s still the headache of owning your own business. Then we had an opportunity to buy a truck from Nate in Michigan. He introduced us to what’s now called The Huge Mastermind. We’ve been in it for about two years, and it’s completely changed our business. Before, we only knew how to show up and do the work. But as the business outgrew us, we didn’t know how to manage people or the day-to-day side.
Colton: Exactly, we’ve learned a ton. We’ve sort of restructured twice. Most recently we added real structure to the business, and it shook things up. Some employees didn’t like the new direction. We lost about three employees in three weeks, which was tough. But in the long run, it’s good. We’re focusing on building a stronger foundation now rather than just “go, go, go.”
Sid: That’s often how it goes. If you have people who don’t want structure or accountability, they self-select out. Let’s talk about culture and core values. One thing we discussed in the Mastermind recently was core behaviors. Did you just define your own?
Colton: Yeah, we thought we had core values two years ago, but they weren’t really there. We can’t even remember them. We basically just grabbed random words off the internet. Now we have them drilled down to “humble, hungry, and professionalism.” Our guys hear it all the time, and they’re held accountable to it. Some employees stayed on board; others left. That’s how it went.
Sid: That’s great. Are you finding it easier to recruit the right people now by referencing these core behaviors in the hiring process?
Derek: Yes, in that we’re taking our time to hire and not rushing it. Short-term it’s painful because we’re down employees, but in the long term it’s better. The new hires are coming into an environment where the existing team lives those values—rather than learning bad habits from some old bad apple.
Sid: Exactly. And I can’t wait to see where you’ll be in a year—especially from our quarterly meetups—just to see how the business evolves once you’ve put these fundamental building blocks in place.
Derek: Absolutely. My advice for anybody just starting would be to lay that foundation early so you don’t have to restructure later. That’s what we’re doing now—kind of undoing the old and setting a new structure.
Sid: Couldn’t agree more. I love talking to entrepreneurs who began with hustle and grit. Let’s wrap up on a personal note. Colton, you recently got married, right?
Colton: Yes, last July—coming up on a year.Sid: And Derek, you’ve got a child on the way?Derek: Due in May.
Sid: Great motivators to get that business hammered down! [laughs] You’ll have a whole new lack-of-sleep reality, Derek.
Derek: Oh, for sure. We also have a three-year-old, and an 11-month-old right now, so it’s a busy time. My wife’s definitely looking forward to having the business more systemized so I’m not out in the field all night.
Sid: Indeed. Parenting is a big motivator for many entrepreneurs—it pushes them to get serious about building a stable, profitable business.
Well, gentlemen, thanks for sharing your journey. Some of this is in real-time, so I can’t wait to catch up and see how it all plays out. Derek and Colton, thanks for being on the show!
Derek: Thank you for having us, Sid.Colton: Thanks, Sid.
Sid: Hello, my friend—this is Sid. Thank you again so much for taking your time to listen to today’s episode. I hope you got some value from it. Listen, anything that was covered—any resources, books, tools—anything like that is in the show notes, so it’s easy for you to find and check out.
Also, I want to let you know: the mission for The Huge Convention and for this show is to help blue-collar business owners like you and me gain financial and time freedom through running a better business. We do that in four ways:
The Huge Insider: a free weekly newsletter—most valuable in the home service industry, paid or otherwise, and it’s free.
The Huge Foundations education platform: over 120 hours of industry-specific education. Every month we do a topical webinar and Q&A with seven- and eight-figure business owners. You can try it for 1 for seven days.
The Huge Convention: if you haven’t been, you’ve got to check it out. Every August (this year in Nashville, August 20-22, 2025). It’s the largest, top-rated trade show and convention for home service business builders—huge trade show, world-class speakers, best networking in the industry.
The Huge Mastermind: for those doing over 750,000 in revenue and aiming for 1M, 5M, or 10M in the next five years. It’s a network and mentorship group of peers where we help you implement The Freedom Operating System.
You can find all the info on all these programs at thehugeconvention.com—just scroll down and click on The Freedom Path. You can also find links in the show notes. If you like the show, please take 90 seconds to give us a review on iTunes, subscribe, and share. That helps other people find us and supports our mission.
Thanks again for listening. We’ll see you on the next episode.

17: The Gregg Hiller Episode

In this episode, host Sheila Smeltzer interviews Greg Hiller of Sundance Window Cleaning in Park City, Utah. Greg shares how he left a comfortable corporate career to start his window cleaning business at age 50, driven by a desire for freedom and control over his future. Despite early challenges, he grew Sundance Window Cleaning into a seven-figure company within five years by focusing on hard work, strategic marketing, and building a strong team.
Greg credits his success to perseverance, resilience, and maintaining a positive mindset—especially when facing major hurdles such as losing employees or handling unexpected accidents. He emphasizes that home service businesses need to view themselves as marketing engines, not just service providers. By reinvesting heavily in customer acquisition early on, Greg was able to build a robust client database and then reduce his marketing spend once the company reached a “cruising altitude.” His passion and optimism shine through, leaving listeners energized and motivated to push through challenges and scale their own businesses.
Show Notes
Guest
Greg Hiller – Owner of Sundance Window Cleaning (Park City, UT)
References & Resources Mentioned
Window Washing Wealth (Coach: Jim DuBois)
Busy Virtual Receptionist (AI-driven answering service in development):
Resources
The Huge Insider newsletter signup
The Huge Insider podcast downloadable action guide
The Foundations platform trial offer
The Huge Mastermind info page
Facebook Group
 
Transcript:
Sid Graef: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the huge transformations podcast. I’m Sid Graef out of Montana.Gabe Torres: I’m Gabe Torres here in Nashville, Tennessee.Sheila Smeltzer: And I’m Sheila Smeltzer from North Carolina. We’re your hosts and guides through the landscape of growing a successful home service business. We do this by interviewing the best home service business builders in the industry—folks that have already built seven- and eight-figure businesses, and they want to help you succeed.Gabe Torres: Yep. No fake gurus on this show. Just real-life owners that have been in the trenches and can help show you the way to grow profitably. We get insights and truths from successful business builders, and every episode is 100% experience, 0% theory.Sheila Smeltzer: We’re going to dig deep and reveal the good, the bad, and the ugly. Our guests will share with you the pitfalls to avoid and the keys to winning. In short, our guests will show you how to transform your home service business into a masterpiece. Thanks for joining us on the wild…
Sheila Smeltzer: Hi, I’m your host today on the Huge Transformations podcast. I am Sheila Smeltzer. Today’s guest is Greg Hiller with Sundance Window Cleaning out of Park City, Utah. You’re going to love this extremely uplifting conversation that Greg and I have about how having a positive mindset can absolutely get you through the tough times that we all experience as business owners.
Greg shares how he built a seven-figure business in five years. He did it with some coaching, but he also did it with a lot of perseverance and a ton of hard work. Greg provides some really tactical marketing strategies that ultimately lead to a “database goldmine.” I love that! I am super excited to have you join us today because I promise you are going to leave this podcast feeling motivated and totally excited to go out and crush it. Let’s get started.
Sheila: Hello everybody. Welcome to the Huge Transformation podcast. I am Sheila Smeltzer located out of North Carolina. And today we have Greg Hiller. Greg is with Sundance Window Cleaning out of Park City, Utah. Yes, I’ve loved going to Park City and skiing, Greg.Greg Hiller: Yeah. Thanks for having me. Glad to be here.Sheila: Yeah, this is great. So I met you recently at a Huge Mastermind, and so I’m looking forward to interviewing you today and getting to know you better. Can you start off by just telling our audience who you are and what you do, and we’ll take it from there?Greg: Yeah. So, yeah, I have a window cleaning business in Park City, as you mentioned. We’re here in Park City, so it’s kind of more high-end residential, which is what I started with. And over the years, we’ve added some commercial, hotels, do a little pressure washing, gutter cleaning—kind of the regular services. And yeah, it just continues to grow every year. And it’s been a hell of a ride getting here these years later.
Sheila: I hear you. What did you do before you got into the window cleaning biz?Greg: Yeah, well, primarily my career was in corporate, mostly logistics distribution in the end—used to run warehouses. But I’m kind of old-school. Started my way working night shift in a grocery store and then started picking orders in warehouses, and moved up to management, drove trucks. So I never went to college; just always been a grinder and a hustler.Sheila: Very good. Yeah. Well, I resonate with that story. Same, same—never been to college. Isn’t it amazing how all of the different—from the time we probably got into the job world—how every single role that we’ve had throughout our career and our evolution as human beings has just absolutely given us the talents and the skills that we need for what we do today?Greg: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think more importantly, just the appreciation to be able to run my own business. I mean, like you said, the corporate career I had was great. It taught me a lot, took care of a growing family I had over the years. But I always yearned for freedom. I yearned to be out of the corporate bureaucracy, giving all my time and energy into that. And so, yeah, when the opportunity came to take that risk, to kind of go for it…you know, we live in a country that allows us to take those chances and succeed. So yeah, that experience—when I started my business, I was able to leverage a lot of that. But boy, there was a whole lot to learn to be an owner-operator, that’s for sure.
Sheila: Absolutely. And tell me, how has that freedom worked out for you?Greg: It’s good. I mean, that was the motivator, right? Towards the end of my corporate career, I had a good career going. I had come off of a project that put me in Europe for two and a half years, implementing an SAP operating system in manufacturing centers. And when I got back, they gave me a job back in the corporation, working from home, making six figures a year with bonus. I had—it was like the corporate dream. But I was like a caged animal. I couldn’t take it. Being on that project changed me to the point I realized, “Hey, I can do anything. I always wanted to have my own business.”
When I was younger in Washington state, a friend of mine had a small window-cleaning business, and I would help him out a little bit on the weekends to make a little extra money. And so it was just kind of like, “All right, life’s too short, I’m just going to go for it.” And I literally gave two weeks notice to this corporate job, put a ladder on my Prius, and off I went. Life is short; I’ve got to go for it. I was 50 years old, staying up till two in the morning, studying marketing on YouTube—I mean, whatever it took to be successful.
Sheila: Good for you, Greg. So tell me, what does Sundance Window Cleaning look like today, eight years later?Greg: Well, the freedom—I guess I never really answered that question. But yeah, almost eight years later, probably the last three years we’ve been doing seven figures. And for the last three years, so probably the fifth year in business, I hit seven figures. And my goal was to build a management team that would run my business for me to give me the freedom. And that’s kind of what happened the last few years is—I was really an absentee owner.
I bought a little property in South Carolina on a couple acres. It’s a fixer-upper, and I spent winters out there working on that, and I go out there once in a while—that’s kind of my getaway. I started doing a little coaching for my original coach. So I do a little bit of that. So yeah, I got the goals that I was going for—that’s what I was doing when I went for it, why I risked everything, is I wanted to build something that would give me the freedom and flexibility to have a different life. And yeah, I’ve been living that.
Recently I had a manager leave, so I’m kind of back in the business restructuring things. And that’s just kind of natural. But I’ve got really good people in my business right now that can take things over. But yeah, it’s been a ride. Those first few years, it was hard work. It was literally blood, sweat, and tears. There were times I just didn’t know if I was going to be able to make it; it was so hard. And then you start hiring employees, and you get so many disappointments through that process. You’ve got to have a mindset of hanging in there and not giving up, and that’s what I did. I stuck with it and finally was able to put a team together that could run the business.
I’ve got to pinch myself; I live a life today I could have never imagined. It’s incredible. It’s opened up other ways of thinking because I’m not the same person I was when I started the business. Yeah, I mean, when I left— the reason I waited till I was 50 to start a business is I honestly didn’t think I was smart enough or capable enough all those years to really run my own business. It just seemed overwhelming. And it took what it took to finally take that leap of faith and go for it. But it changed me. And now today I’ve got some other things going—I’m working on this AI receptionist business on the side, I have my place in South Carolina, I have these other interests that I’m doing, and also just continuing to kind of coach my own business, I guess, to try to improve it.
Sheila: Sure. Okay, okay. So there’s a lot there. I want to backtrack real quick back to Sundance. What does your team look like? If you were to kind of paint a picture for us of what your org chart looks like, what is your structure in your company? Because I’m sure a lot of our viewers are thinking, “Okay, great, absentee owner, he’s living a life of freedom, that’s why he started his business.” You really scaled it up quite quickly, Greg. I know that it feels like a long time in the grit and the grind that you’re talking about, but you really did it quite quickly. What does the business look like where you are able to step aside and do some other things that you love?Greg: Yeah. Well, I guess I could go a little bit through the progression of it—what led to today, I guess. First and foremost, it was me and my Prius with a part-time helper. The first year, I did a whopping 70,000 in sales, my first year in business. And that was me, a helper, me on the cell phone, 30 feet up a ladder with a scratch pad every time I’d get a call come in.
Then maybe the next year, I believe I got a part-time person in the office. I was able to grow it by another 200, 250,000 in revenue the second year. And that was due to, one, having a coach that I hired that first year—a shout out to Jim DuBois at Window Washing Wealth—just a fantastic guy, fantastic program. It helped propel me to where I am today, having that coach that first year. It seemed like an enormous investment, but I didn’t start this business to be mediocre. I started it to build a seven-figure business that ran itself. So I invested in the coach.
So I went from basically hiring a part-time office administration to, when I could afford it, finally taking some of the calls and going into my CRM, booking things. Then each year, I grew about a quarter million in revenue. And that was tough—that’s no joke trying to grow at that rate. It was not easy, especially in my business in the mountains. It’s super seasonal here. We go through—we’ve got to hire up hugely in the spring, roll through summer, and then you crash in the dead of winter to nothing. And then you’ve got to redo it, rinse, repeat, every single year. Tough business to run. Those seasonal folks out there—I get it.
Then I added—I took one of my really good technicians and made him an operations manager. Then I finally got an office person while still using Jill’s Office another year. I can’t remember exactly the stages, but basically today, my org chart is a general manager, an office manager, an operations manager, and a virtual assistant. And I still use a call center as a third backup because I always want somebody answering the phone.
Then I will come in physically to the office in May and June—that’s the peak of the season—only because we’ll hire 12 technicians. We will literally hire 12 brand-new people with no experience and have them ready to run routes within two weeks.
Sheila: What does your training program look like?Greg: Well, it starts with videos. You want to just build videos. I just did simple little clips of everything we could think of and just hosted it on YouTube. That was just easy at the time—I know there’s lots of other ways to host it now. And then, yeah, we start them out with YouTube, going through a series. And then we physically have them learn the fanning technique right out the gate. They might even spend a whole day just learning the fanning technique. Then we send them out on jobs. Basically, we pay them 20 bucks an hour for a week—that’s their training. It costs 800 out of pocket for each brand-new person, and then they convert to a percentage-based pay at 15% after that. They’re expected to hold their own after a week of training.
Sheila: Okay, so you are doing performance pay.Greg: Yep, yep. We’re trying for 25,000 of revenue per month out of a two-person crew. When you look at the ROI on that training, it’s still good. So that’s also why I’ll come in in May and June just to help support that training effort. I’ll look for technicians that might be struggling, and I’ll work personally with them a little bit. That’s just kind of my way of helping the team out. We used to do a lot of jobs, but I told them, “I’m retired from climbing ladders anymore.” But now I’m like, “Okay, I think I’m done, but I will help with the training every year.”
Sheila: Awesome. Very good. I wanted to dive back in—thanks for painting that picture. I think it’s really important that people and our listeners understand what the company looks like. Because whenever we go to conventions or we’re listening to podcasts, we really size ourselves up a lot to what other companies are doing. But it’s a good thing, in my opinion, because it really allows us to benchmark and be like, “Okay, wow, Greg’s doing 25,000 for two technicians per month.” That’s really good stuff to share because that tells another company that’s listening, “Oh my gosh, that’s possible.” We can do that.
Greg, let’s talk about—I’ve heard you use the word “faith” a lot. I’ve heard you use “perseverance,” “hard work,” and before we got on, you told me you were “old school.” I’d like to dive into that a little bit. In the window cleaning/pressure washing/home service industry, it’s a really low point of entry, right? There’s a lot of people. I think I was interviewing someone—they said they went on Google and typed “What is the easiest startup business?” and window cleaning was number five. Doesn’t surprise me—600 bucks, you’re out the door, right? But where I’m going with that is, where do we want to…? We’re talking about the old school. There’s a lot of new guys in the industry. That’s really what I’m saying. So take us back. What do you feel is the ingredient to success? What are the ingredients to success? Because you and I both, I mean, I’m 49, you have a little bit on me, but we’re in the same age range. We’ve been around a little bit longer—there are probably a lot of young viewers listening. But let’s talk about what you feel it takes to succeed.
Greg: Yeah, well, I say “old school” because I came out of high school in 1985. I don’t know if you were a little younger than me back then, but that was a recession back then, right? If you could get a job, you kept a job. So my first job out of high school was rooming with some of my high school buddies and moving to the big city and working a graveyard shift in a grocery store. I ended up doing that for almost seven years, grinding away, making 10 bucks an hour to scrape enough money to buy groceries and pay rent. That went on for years.
I tell a story though, too: the grocery store I worked for was owned by a retired Marine sergeant. It was an IGA, and there are 2,000 IGAs in America, right? Man, we had to learn every customer by name. We had to stop everybody in the aisle, ask them if they needed help, take out groceries, mop the floors every day. We had to do everything perfect or we got yelled at. Couldn’t get fired because it was a recession/depression. But after working there for three years, this little IGA in Tacoma, Washington, got first place in the United States for the fastest growth, the best customer experience from all these KPIs in the United States. It taught me what hard work and service can do for a small business. I learned it from Ken Adams—Ken Adams IGA.
That’s a whole other story, but old school. Then I went from there—working seven years in a grocery store—to then picking orders in a warehouse, and then driving a semi-truck, unloading 40,000 pounds by hand down a ramp into restaurants on a graveyard shift for 12- to 15-hour shifts back then, driving a semi. Hard work. So when I finally got into management, my corporate career was all about putting in long hours, having that work ethic.
So when I decided to start my own business, I brought that work ethic right there. Yeah, window cleaning, pressure washing—it’s a low barrier to entry. Yeah, a lot of people can do it. There are a lot of guys and gals out there starting it up every year. But what separates those from a real company, from a real successful business, is the work that’s put in behind it. Like I said, when I started my business, I had the Prius, I had a ladder, and I got on my mountain bike and hung door hangers until it got dark every single night. Then I would jump on the computer and study everything I could find online in marketing until I finally got a coach a year later, which helped me with marketing—because you’ve got to get marketing going. We’re not just in the service business, we are in the marketing business. If you want to be successful, you’ve got to learn how to market.
But that work ethic—plus in my personal life, I had some failures. That time I worked graveyards in a grocery store, I was 26 years old, living in a single-wide mobile home with a beat-up car. I started drinking too much. I lost my wife and three kids at the age of 26, and wanted to end my life. My life was broken; everything was destroyed. I hit a bottom. Thank God I found recovery, which also found me a higher power, which found me a God, which gave me faith. Because I’ll tell you what—if I hadn’t had faith, I don’t know if I would be where I am today with my business.
It’s one thing to go out and make a nice hourly wage cleaning windows by yourself. To take it to growing into a seven-figure business and putting up with all the bullshit you’ve got to put up with to get it there—it took faith. It took faith in God. And I understand—I never believed in God growing up. I don’t judge anybody for anything; if it’s faith in yourself or faith in your community or faith in your family or whatever your faith is, find some faith because you’re going to need it. You’re going to hit some walls, and you’ve got to get past that. I believe success—this is what separates most people from success and not success—are the ones that don’t give up, that keep going no matter how hard it gets, that keep going.
I’ve had times where I lost my entire crew. I’ve hired people that took drugs and crashed my truck into downtown and a bunch of other cars. Right? I used to hear stories from these big companies, and I’m like, “Oh my God, I hope that doesn’t happen to me.” Well, it all happened to me. You just have to get through that day, get to bed, wake up the next day, and keep on going.
Sheila: We all could. I was just thinking we could write a book—10 small business owner contributors, writing a book of all the crappy stuff that we’ve been through. I think I’ve learned pretty much everything I’ve learned the hard way. I feel like that, and I’m starting to finally get smarter than that. But there’s also this element of going for it and not being afraid to take that leap of faith and to go after the thing. Whenever you choose to do that, there’s just a lot of responsibility that comes along with it. So that’s where that grit and perseverance and faith comes in. I love your story about the IGA.
I think about my very first job at a high-end men’s clothing store in downtown Davenport, Iowa, fitting men with these really high-end suits, all that stuff. Talk about learning service—how to serve that high-end clientele, that sort of thing. It was sales, too—I had to sell merchandise. I had to convince these stingy old guys to buy this stuff. It’s fun to rehash that at this stage in our career and say, “Wow, that really did help me out,” right? I love that story so much. I really appreciate you sharing that with us.
Sheila: Can we go in a little bit different direction? You’re talking about marketing. Marketing is very important, and it doesn’t come easy to a lot of us. Some of us have to hire out certain portions, and there are so many different marketing channels, plus having to have repetitive campaigns to be able to hit those channels over and over again. But what has worked for you in regards to marketing? Give me a little bit about branding. By the way, I’ve been to your website—awesome website. I really thought it was great. I encourage any of our listeners to check out your website at Sundance Window Cleaning. Just a really good model—very clean, easy to navigate, to the point. It was great.
Greg: Yeah, and boy, it took me a while to really understand marketing. I threw so much money out there sometimes just to see what would stick on the walls and got disappointed. It took a while to really get my head around understanding the principle of what you’re trying to accomplish with marketing.
With the basics, what you want to do is—Google is king in most cases, right? You’ve got to have—ideally you want organic SEO coming up in your market. There are ways to do that by having a good website, having everything tagged appropriately. This is where third-party, once you can afford it, to help support your SEO is important because there are keywords and videos and different things you can do to organically boost your SEO. I don’t want to get too much in the weeds, but at the end of the day, you’ve got print, EDDMs, you’ve got Google, you’ve got Facebook. It’s not hard to figure out all those avenues. It’s all out there today. The key thing is you want to track everything. You want to have a tracker. You want to have a list of all your marketing avenues, what your spend is. You want to ask every customer that calls you, “Where did you hear from us?” You want to capture that ROI on your marketing spend. That’s the basics of it because that then informs you of where in your market and what’s working and what’s not.
What I’ve come to learn over the years in trying different things—and I also used HomeAdvisor when I first started. It was a love/hate relationship; mostly I hate. I don’t use it anymore because what I hated about it was having to quickly answer the phone and be the first one and put up with all kinds of crap. So I don’t use it anymore, but it helped boost me. What I learned in HomeAdvisor was, after the first year, I’m like, “Why am I doing this? Why am I spending the money?” All these leads I lost…well, when I went and looked at it, I had a slightly positive ROI after that first year with HomeAdvisor. Of course, the light bulb goes off: “Wait a minute. As long as I keep those customers happy, the following year I get to profit. My margin will be good on all of those acquired new customers.”
The way I view it today is, when I’m in growth mode—even if I break even on the ROI or the cost of customer acquisition—it’s not ideal; I always want to do better than that. But even if I break even, that’s not such a bad thing because your database becomes your goldmine. When you acquire that customer and it’s in your database and you service that customer, you can then begin to market directly to that customer. Once you have a customer, it’s easier to raise your pricing on them than trying to get a higher price to get a new customer. So your database is gold.
So tracking your marketing spend… When I was early in my marketing days, if I had the capital, I now would have probably known to spend upwards of 30 to 35% of my revenue on marketing because I’m in that growth mode. I’m buying customers. I am going out and paying a customer to come on board with me to hopefully stay with me for five to ten years so then I can upsell them and raise prices on them. Part of my success was just massive customer acquisition every year. I can’t tell you how many estimates I run around and do every year—it’s crazy. Obviously, if you can do estimates remotely on Google, great, but I’m in a custom-build market and I prefer to be there. I get excited.
Sheila: Hey, I love that. You’re really passionate about that.Greg: Customers are everything.Sheila: I love it. I love it. I love it. Basically what I’m hearing is your growth plan was high customer acquisition, big marketing budget in the beginning, load up that database, then you dialed down and focused your marketing on that recurring revenue.Greg: Yeah. Once—I used to say, “Hey guys…” And I don’t want to—talking a lot about me, but I can’t speak to the success of my business without talking about all the employees that I’ve had over the years that helped get me where I am today. But I would tell my team, “Hey, once we get to that seven-figure mark—once we get to that million dollar—we’re kind of in that plane taking off, right? We’re burning a lot of fuel. You’re burning a lot of customer cost acquisition to get up to cruising altitude. Once you get to cruising altitude…”
For the last few years, my marketing budget dropped to even 5% because I hit a point in my seasonal market that outside of adding winter services, the growth always comes in my busy season. I want to cap out at a certain point and then focus on cost reduction, margin improvement. Once I got to cruising, my marketing spend dropped, and then I was able to leverage that cash towards better wages for my employees, 401(k), healthcare. That was a great thing to finally achieve—a certain revenue mark we as a team were trying to get to. Then I started adding benefits into my organization to share the wealth a little bit with my team.
Sheila: Wow, that’s great. On your seven-figure business, what type of marketing budget do you have? How much of that today?Greg: We’re hovering about 10% because being in a resort market, there’s a lot of turnover, a lot of people that sell, a lot of people that move. It’s a higher turn rate than more of a stable environment, I find. Over the years, Park City has grown so fast. When I first came in, I didn’t have a ton of really talented competition—there were tons of bucket bobs running around all over the place. But now I have a lot more competition that’s sophisticated, that has consultants, and they’re doing really good marketing in my market. So I have to bring my spend up a little bit on my marketing to maintain what I have. But we dominate, organically, SEO. That’s a plus I have as well.
Sheila: Very good. For non-marketing dollars—somebody just starting out and needs to start getting their name out there—what do you recommend?Greg: Doing what I did: door hangers and yard signs. That’s your biggest bang for the buck. Like I said, when I started my business, I would spend several hours a week, sometimes a whole afternoon if I had the time, just riding my mountain bike to neighborhoods, leaving it up against a tree, jogging to doors. I would blast hundreds and hundreds of door hangers on all kinds of properties. I even door-knocked a few times when I was like, “Okay, I’m ready to make some money.” So that, to me, was the best bang for the buck.
Obviously, you’ve got to have a Google Business page—get that organic SEO going, get a website, get keywords in there, get your services in there. You’ve got to start building that immediately. If you can afford to spend a little bit on Google ads, a little bit on Facebook ads, just to get your branding going in your market…
I saved up for my first EDDM campaign—Every Door Direct Mailing through the U.S. Post Office. It can be kind of pricey, but that’s one avenue to get new customers. It took me a couple of years to save up enough for that, and I didn’t do it right. You’re supposed to target a targeted area two or three times over a couple of months, and I broke even on my first EDDM campaign. I think that cost me 4,000 in a small market. But I got one big job out of it that I had for years and years and years, and it more than—Sheila: More than paid for your 4,000 investment.Greg: Oh my God, I saved up for two years, I spent 4,000, and I got one job out of it. But that job ended up feeding my business a lot of money.
Sheila: I love that. I love that. I don’t know about HomeAdvisor anymore—the buying leads. I learned something a long time ago—and we won’t stay on that, but I did it for a short while as well, and it felt very cutthroat. I kind of got to the point where I thought, “I don’t even want to compete with these guys. I’m better than this,” so I just…
Paying for a lead—I learned something a long time ago from a colleague: a referral is sending someone you care about to someone you trust. And I’ve always believed that when you build that trust with people organically—because I’m sure that you have this because of the type of person you are and the type of culture you probably have in your company—you probably have a lot of existing client referrals.Greg: Yeah, and I should add that to the marketing. When I was smaller, I was on every single job, and if my customers were home, I always tried to strike up a short conversation, get to know them a little bit, be really friendly, and then not be afraid to ask them for the referral. I would just say, “Look, I’m starting up this business, I’m trying to grow it, it’s a tough market. Anything you could do to help me—tell any of your friends or neighbors about me—I would really appreciate it.” It doesn’t hurt to ask, and you’d be surprised if you put it like that how many people are willing to help you out, especially when you’re first getting off the ground.
Sheila: Yeah, I agree. Making it part of your end-of-job procedure for your technicians… It’s a question; it’s an ask. All we’ve got to do is ask. What are they going to do—say no? “Hey, if you really love what we did for you here today, do you have any friends or neighbors that might be interested in our service, too?” If they had a good experience, they are so happy to turn you over that lead. That is the best way to grow your company, in my opinion. It takes longer, but when that lead comes to you, there’s already a sense of trust. You’re not competing with the other guys; you’re not having to worry about your price as much. You’re able to put your best foot forward and be like, “Okay, well, so-and-so referred me, so here, I’ll do the same thing for you.” Usually they’re high-margin jobs because people are just willing to do business with you because they trust you.
Greg: Right.Sheila: Greg, we have covered so many really cool things today, and I love learning your story. I love that we went down the marketing path, too, because marketing—it’s a grind in itself, right? Trying to figure it all out. Everybody comes at you: “Do this, do that.” You could spend a lot of money. It’s really great that you shared your marketing experience, and you gave some very direct solutions for our listeners. I really appreciate that.
Are there any final thoughts you have as we wrap up today’s podcast?Greg: Yeah, just kind of on that marketing note, probably one other thing I’d add is try to be proactive. I used to be reactive: “Oh no, it’s slowing down in August. Oh my God, quick, let’s send some postcards out, pay for a Google ad.” No—look in advance a couple of months before gutter season, a couple of months before window cleaning, a couple of months before your pressure washing. Be ahead of it. Get it ready, get your materials ready, get your print ready, get everything set up, and launch it in advance. Be proactive in your marketing, not reactive. That’s one other thing I thought of.
Sheila: No, that’s fantastic, and I love where you’re going with that because it really starts with how much money do we want to… You’ve got to spend money to make money, unfortunately. That’s why you do as much footwork and referrals early to build up momentum, and then save some of that profit to reinvest back into marketing, right?Greg: Exactly.Sheila: Because it’s that percentage of revenue—we have to decide what type of mode are we in? Are we really trying to grow this year, or are we wanting to do it maybe a little bit more organically? Whatever that looks like. Coming up with that revenue and then backing it into what is that specific market you want to serve, and what is that potential there, and then how are you going to get to them through the marketing channels? And then knowing that you need to hit them up several times throughout the year for that repetitive branding. At that point you’re just building out a calendar. If you follow your calendar—like we all do as business owners—you can stay on track with that. Really, you’re kind of beginning with the end in mind and then backing it into a plan.
Greg: Exactly.Sheila: I love it. Such good stuff. I’m thankful—thank you for leaving us with that final marketing tip. I’ve really enjoyed getting to know you better today, Greg.Greg: Yeah, well, thanks for having me, Sheila. It’s fun. I get excited talking about the business. I guess my final thing is yeah, thank God for America. Thank God for the opportunity where we all have a chance to live the American dream and to go for it and put it all out there. I just wish all of the folks that watch or listen to this absolute success. Just believe in yourself, put in the work, don’t give up, get mentors, listen to good people—just go for it.
All of the pain—it’s temporary. Every time you’re faced with a problem, it’s just an opportunity to get stronger. It’ll change your life, and success will come, and it opens up doors. Early on I was like, “Oh, how did I walk away from that paycheck every two weeks I had coming in?” Now I’m like, “Man, I would never go back.” There’s not a problem in the world that can come along that would stop me from being in this world. It’s the best thing. God bless America, man. I’m telling you.
Sheila: Your passion is absolutely contagious. Even me—I’ve kind of had a rough day today, but you’ve got me feeling really good, Greg. I love it! I think our listeners are probably feeling really good, too, and I really appreciate those words of inspiration because we need that. We all need it, and I really, really thank you for sharing that today, from the bottom of my heart.
Okay, well, we’re going to knock off for today. We thank all of our guests and listeners for learning some more about Greg Hiller. If you want to look him up, it’s Sundance Window Cleaning in Park City, Utah. Also, Greg, real quick, can we just do a quick plug for Busy Virtual Receptionists?Greg: Yeah, so part of the beauty of this is I have a little extra time, so I’m starting another gig—artificial intelligence phone receptionist. I’m in the process of building it, so it’s not quite done yet, but it’s going to be called Busy Virtual Receptionist—B I Z Z E—virtualreceptionist.com. Hopefully I’ll have it rolled out in a couple of months, and basically it’s going to do what a call center does, but it’ll just be an AI. They’ll be able to take appointments, put it on a calendar for you, lower cost, works 24 hours a day, gives you no grief as an employee, hopefully. Hopefully some of you can take advantage of that. Because when I look back early on—man, I love the call centers, but oh my gosh, the overages and some of the costs associated with having that call center broke me a little bit financially back in the day. I think the future is really AI receptionists, especially for small companies just getting off the ground—low cost, can answer the phone, answer questions.
Yeah, that’s part of the beauty of being an entrepreneur now—I can try stuff like this. So look it up—it’ll probably be out there in a couple of months.Sheila: Love it, that you share that. It absolutely fills a need, especially in busy season. To hire another person in-house or to go with VA or call centers can get costly, especially hiring somebody, and then to hire somebody temporarily, that’s payroll taxes and all that. So you’re absolutely filling a need. In busy season we could use—I don’t know how many “busies” we have to bring on, but we could probably bring on three or four easy in the next three to four months. That’s awesome! I congratulate you for the innovation itself and the boldness of starting something totally new in the AI space. That’s awesome, Greg.
Okay, well, thanks for sharing with us today, Greg, and thanks to all of our listeners here today at the Huge Transformation Podcast. We’re going to sign off, and we hope you guys all crush it.Greg: Yeah, thanks, Sheila. It was great. I appreciate it.Sheila: Absolutely. We’ll see you soon, Greg.Greg: Okay, take care. Bye-bye.
Sid Graef: Hello, my friend. This is Sid. Thank you again so much for taking your time to listen to today’s episode. I hope you got some value from it. And listen, anything that was covered—any of the resources, any of the books, any of the tools—anything like that is in the show notes, so it’s easy for you to find and check it out.
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Next, of course, is The Huge Convention—or The Huge Convention if you haven’t been. You’ve got to check it out. It’s every August. This year it’s in Nashville, Tennessee—that’s August 20th through 22nd in 2025. And it is the largest and number-one-rated trade show and convention for home service business builders. We’ve got the biggest trade show so you can check out all the coolest tools and meet the vendors and check out the software to run your business. And we’ve got world-class education and educators and speakers that will teach you how to run a better business. And it’s the best networking opportunity that you can have within the home service business.
Then lastly, if you want to pour jet fuel on your business, check out The Huge Mastermind. Now, it’s not for everyone. You’ve got to be over 750,000 in revenue, and you’re building toward 1 million, 5 million, 10 million in the next five years. It is a network, mentorship, and mastermind of your peers, and we help you understand and implement the Freedom Operating System. We’ll go into more detail, but you can get all the information on all four of these programs and how we’ll help you advance your business quickly just by going to thehugeconvention.com and scrolling down to click on The Freedom Path. Or, of course, you can find the links here in the show notes.
Sorry, I feel like I’m getting a little bit wordy, but I just want to let you know of the resources that are available to you to help you accelerate and advance your beautiful small business. So keep on growing, keep on learning, keep advancing. If you like the show, go ahead—if you would—go and take 90 seconds, give us a review on iTunes, then subscribe and share it. Man, it would really mean the world to us. It would help other people as we continue our mission to help people just like you and me. Thanks again for listening. We’ll see you on the next episode.

16.5: Bonus - April Host Meetup

 Hey, welcome back to the Huge Transformation podcast. Guess what? Today's a really fun episode because I got Sheila and Gabe here. Hey Sheila. Hey, Gabe. Hey. Hey. What's up Syd? What's up Sheila? Alright. Is everybody home or are you still on the road? Gabe, you were in Oklahoma City last week. What's up on the I'm back home before I get back on the road next week, but yeah, back in Nashville for this week.
And then is Sheila, are you, like last time we spoke you were just, you had just gotten back from an epic snow trip into Idaho, which is like right up in anywhere. Yeah. Idaho back country, yes. Oh, cool. It was fun. Yurt stays and. Wood-burning saunas and solar and totally off the grid with no cell phone, no internet.
It was fabulous. Tons of snow. It was great. Exactly what I needed. God, that's beautiful. I saw the pictures. How, how you, you mentioned it when we were, uh, texting how many miles you guys back? Country cross country speech. We were just having fun. I mean, we did like 26. Smiles, 27 miles, something like that.
But it, but there was a lot of, um, I mean we were pulling those, uh, what do you call the sled that you pull? What do call that? Yeah. It just, I don't know what it's called. Your gear is that all your gear on it and you're trudging and pulling that huge sled full of all your stuff. I mean, it was, I got a heck of a workout.
That sounds like a void. It was called a fun. Called a Yes. How far in did you have to, to, uh, pull your gear to get to the yurt? About three miles. Oh, we lost you, Sheila. Oh no, there's your miles. I'm back. Three miles. Three miles? Yeah. It was three miles. Yes. Not far. It was fine. Okay. Yeah. That's cool. And then Gabe last week, you're in Oklahoma City and from what I understand, you're considering moving there.
Is that right? Absolutely not. It's the flattest place on earth. Like literally it, there's nothing blocking the wind and dust. And so, uh, my flight got delayed 'cause there was a dust storm. And even when we went to fly out the, uh, stewardess said, Hey, I don't wanna scare anybody, but just make sure, double check.
You have a barf bag in front of you. Right. I. Um, and everybody was like, what? And it was because it was so windy when we took off. The plane was shaking as we were going on the runway, but it was fine. But yeah, Oklahoma City is fun. Cool little city, like a lot of cool stuff to do around it, but would would never live there.
Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. They kind of flat, great Plains, high Plains area. Um, I grew up, you know, close to Amarillo, which is. Uh, roughly the same terrain. It's not that close, but it's just, you know, we go, oh, it's gonna be windy today. What does that mean? That means it's 50 mile an hour all day long with gusts up to 80.
That's windy. Not like, that's when blocking the wind like nothing. No freeze. You can see, you look right and you see everything that's to the right or the east of you or the west, whatever direction you look. Mm-hmm. Like, I can't, I look in my backyard and I just see my trees. I can't see my neighbor's house.
Or like, whereas here, you could see the entire city of Oklahoma City. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. So let's, let's catch up a little bit. So, six weeks ago was the last time we saw you guys. We were all together in Nashville at the huge Mastermind and we actually recorded an introduction to this podcast. This podcast in a phone booth.
We were like stuck in this little bitty, bitty phone booth. Bye. In the last six weeks. I mean, we've kind of, how seasonal is your business, Sheila? You're in, in North Carolina? Yeah. Uh, our, we have really four slower months, but my goal is closing in that seasonal gap. Right. And just being slam ball the heck of the wall all the time.
Yeah. Um, but uh, yeah, I mean, so January, February, and then we get a little slow down August, September because we have hurricane season, but you know. Yeah. It, it starts off slow the first couple months, and then otherwise we stay pretty, pretty solid. Okay. So you kinda, do you have, do you have a distinct spring rush?
Oh, big time pollen season. Okay. Um, yeah, we, we are entering from really April, mid-April, all the way through August 1st. Um, yeah, we're, we've got 300, 350 calls coming in the office a week. Wow. Okay. Yeah. Something I wanna loop back around to that in just a minute. Let me ask you, Gabe, so the majority of right hand rhino is, is storefront window cleaning?
Is there a seasonality to it? No. I mean, the springtime, I think it's a little busier because that's when people pay attention more or the patios are getting used more and the dust and pollen, especially in Nashville, is really bad. Like, I don't know if how it is with you guys, but you go outside right now and your, your car is yellow.
It's just so covered. Yeah. So, so yeah. But, um, yellow gold. I like to call it yellow gold. Yeah. It's, it's awesome because I, I think people do pay more attention to it, but we don't see any kinda spike like that that is Okay. 350 we get, on average, I think we get 53 calls a week. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, and it, so, and I'm in Montana and we get like, it's very seasonal.
So December, like we worked into mid-December this year 'cause it was pretty mild, but January, February, ain't nothing going on. Like the phone is not ringing. We have some winter contracts, but not very much. And even those that we have, you know, like. It's eight degrees or it's minus 10. It's like Yeah, everyone's just trying to not die, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Surviving the winter. Right? But so, so we were at, uh, we were together at the Mastermind and one of the concepts we went over, not this most recent, but prior we, we talked about, we learned about total addressable market. Yeah. And then, you know, the past, um, mastermind in February, was it February?
Yeah, February when we were together. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, we are looking at strategic development and mm-hmm. On our other podcast, the huge insider, somebody shared, um, Mike Dalkey, he's like, when we ran blue skies, you know, $5 million, you know, winter Clinic company said, this is what we did every February to bring work forward and to pre-schedule and to try to fill, you know, like he was in Minnesota here in Montana.
You know, March is a shoulder season. It might as well still be winter. Because you might have a sunny day, but you might have, you know, eight inches of snow and it, you don't know. But I, I, uh, was so excited. We, I talked to my office manager and Emily and I'm like, Hey, I want you to do this. We always try to pre-book our, our, uh, all of our commercial work, like we do that in February.
And pre-book 'em. It doesn't matter when they book. We booked for the whole year. So all those big jobs are secure and they don't get, uh, you know, muscled out by the flood of phone calls when people start wearing their houses cleaned. And I did not check up on her, but I shared the, the episode of the Insider and like the end of February, I said, Hey, how's March looking and context?
Last March was our biggest march and we did like $52,000 of revenue. In March. Mm-hmm. Which to me is phenomenal because it could be zero. 'cause it could be, you know, frozen. It's so cold. Yeah. Yeah. So when I checked her I was like, Hey, how we looking? She said, we have 84,000 booked for March. Hey, good job.
Nice. Yeah. Oh. I was like, oh, that's amazing. So we just, between she and I, we didn't talk to the team about it, but we set a goal. It's like, if we can make a hundred thousand for March, that'll be, you know, a big record and uh, yeah. She ended up, she scheduled 102,000, and then the, the 31st was on Monday. We had a job on Friday for $2,500.
They canceled because they, they started construction project, so we're like, oh, we're, we're like $600, nine.
We finished the month at $100,060, so we, we beat the goal. Oh, you so beat the goal. That's great. Yeah. Not the, and then everybody got, we, we bought, um. I bought a fancy coffee maker for the cave, for the cave. That's our warehouse called the Cave. Um, it's like a $900 coffee maker that grinds and does all the, you just push a button and it's like Zo.
And, uh, day one, our production manager, he went from drinking two coffees a day to seven. He's like just living by the coffee maker. Going go, go, go. Oh my gosh. But so a hundred thousand. Everybody just drinks seven cups of coffee a day. I love it. I know it. We got a thousand dollars of coffee a day going down the go through the crew, but man, their production rate jumped.
I tell you that. Caffeine? Yeah. Yeah. That's exciting. Sid. Congratulations. Yeah. Congrats. That's awesome. Thanks. So, um, Gabe, I know you guys are in heavy growth mode. Tell me what's going on there. What have you, what have you seen, what have you learned in the last, you know, four to six weeks? Um, I think, uh, the value of doing something like, you know, taking the, the other thing Dalkey calls it, uh, is you know, your ip, like we're all generating IP in our businesses.
And actually using it. And I think like that's one thing that a lot of times even we, we fall victim to not doing is we know we should be doing something or we know this happened last winter or last December, um, but we forget, or we don't systemize or we don't make it something that that happens in Q4.
So I think like always trying to think through that is just super helpful. But the one thing that we did do really well was that a couple years ago. We got slammed in December by a lot of companies wanting to close out the books, and then they had these huge balances because their AP department is separate from the onsite sometimes.
And so the general managers hire us and they're just letting the bills rack up and then their AP department has to pay it off. Mm-hmm. So it was just such a mess, uh, for, uh, my office manager, for our admin, they had to take a ton of time, but also. We realized, hey, let's get on that really early in December and November because these people wanna pay their bills off.
So let's get like, let's get them caught up and let's get everybody paid off. And it's less stressful for them and their AP team. And so we did a really good job of that. So we, uh, we collected, uh, in every month of this quarter, in the first quarter, we collected more money than we actually even produced.
Because we were collecting Oh, wow. Stuff that was past due. Yeah. So it was really cool. March we collected I think 170,000 and we produced 150 or, or a hundred some close to one 60. But it was pretty cool. 'cause typically in our business there's a lag. We never collect everything we produce. Yeah. On net thirties or net sixties, so Especially with storefront, right?
Yeah. I mean, yeah. Yep. It's all delayed typically. What are you guys seeing or what are you doing personally with your business with there? There's, you know, there's so much volatility in the marketplace right now, and like we had tariffs and everybody hated America and then they delayed it for 90 days.
But like, and we, I've saw, I would just watched my little stock portfolio go down 20% and then back up to, you know, like it's just all over the place. Um, with that kind of economic uncertainty. Like what do you guys think about that with your business? Number one or the, or just with accounts receivables, like how you're manage managing that?
Or are you doing anything to shorten the cycle so you don't have a lot of ar? Yeah, it's interesting. I've been trying to dream up this kind of tagline, slogan that is something to the effect of labor does not have tariffs. Like labor does not come with tariffs. Like spend your money at home, right? I mean.
I don't know what that looks like, but, um, we've heard it a little bit from our clients. And our clients are typically, um, retirees that are living in their dream home and, you know, so they're on fixed incomes and things like that. Um, so we're hearing a little bit, but I gotta tell you, we have a huge uptick, um, from collecting, um, credit cards upon booking.
Yeah. Um, so that we can charge like immediately when we're done with the job. We're selling service agreements where people are paying in full for an annual service agreement. Really? Um, we're seeing huge uptick in that. Yeah, I mean, we, we launched service agreements, um, two months ago. I think we've sold 20 plus right now, but I mean, Hey, I, I'm happy with that.
So we have a goal, um, uh, of selling. So each of my salespeople are supposed to sell 10 a month. At an average of $2,000 each. So they're, they're starting out pretty good. They're starting out pretty good. Yes. That's great. Would you mind walk, like, kind of walk me through the process or the, the sales presentation?
How do you do service agreements? How do you break it down? How do you sell it? Yeah, sure. Um, service agreements, really what we're trying to do is, it's a, it's a, to enter a service agreement, it's a minimum of four visits per year. And those four visits per year probably are gonna be quarterly. Some clients on the ocean front may want 6, 8, 12 visits per year just doing their, um, you know, ocean front, main view windows or whatever that may be.
But what we're doing is we're, um, when we go and do an estimate, we're doing a full site assessment, property assessment, and we're identifying all of the services that we can provide to that client. So we're giving them what they're asking for on that estimate, right? What they called for initially.
Originally, maybe a house wash or whatnot. But then we're also presenting to them a actual service agreement package that shows them how by us coming this frequency, they're actually buying labor hours instead of full blown service rates. So we're selling them labor hours at 95 to $110 an hour, and we're just building visits into that service agreement.
They get one big number and all they're seeing are these visits and what's being done on those visits, and we're trying to create a holistic cleaning package for their property. And, um, and then they have an option to pay all up front, which they get perks and bonuses for that. Um, they can do monthly billing.
It's all set up and it's, I'm somewhat spoiled because it's all a function of ServiceTitan. Okay. So we have the capability of doing all this through ServiceTitan, so it's. It's pretty trick. It's pretty trick. That's cool. That's cool. Yeah, and I'm really trying to incorporate, um, you know, being 25 years in business, it's like, okay, let's think, how can I reposition and think outside the box of just cleaning windows and washing houses?
Because I'm leaning into our southeastern climate, being next to the coast. We've got oxidation, corrosion. We have these, what I'm identifying as like these environmental threats. And so all my new marketing positioning is around these environmental threats and how we can build services in that help protect the long-term investment of the home.
Mm-hmm. I'm calling it our 10 x dream outcome. Um, and so like you kinda get the gist, I could keep talking about it for a while, but that's, um, it's something very exciting because obviously you're building recurring revenue, you're building, um, you know, great relationships with your clients. And you know, I mean, I'm always thinking about my employees too, and back to the seasonality, like how do we get these services when people don't typically call us?
We have to sell 'em. Yeah. We have to sell services in the off season and roll 'em into packages because they need things done at their house that time of year. They just don't know it. So yeah, we have to, we have to educate them. Right. So. Yeah. So that's a, that's a big new launch for us and we're getting ready to do a whole new creative and rebranding and everything around that.
Um, and this kind of re repositioning that I've dreamed up. Okay. Yeah, that's really great. And especially like if you're selling into the slow season, you know, like an ideal time to do that is when it's really busy and they're thinking, oh, I need to have this. Yeah, like selling wintertime, cleaning in April as a bundle or a, you know, a service agreement so that they've already said yes.
Because, you know, we have a hard time selling squat in the wintertime because it's winter. Nobody's thinking about it. Think about other stuff. Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's really cool though. Sheila, sorry to cut you off, but I just, I remember you talking about this idea, I think it was maybe a year ago or you, when the first, like the inception came up and you like had said, I'm going to do this and we're gonna reposition and this is what I'm thinking.
So it's cool to hear you talk about, like, you guys doing it now. Yeah. Thank God. Yeah. That's, no, it's, that's cool. No, it was cool for me to hear from like the, when you hear an idea. Just as in like the, the hatchling of an idea to now like executing and what you're doing with the service agreements. It's like, oh man, that's so cool.
Yeah. Subscription model. I mean, um, it's just, I feel like it just solves a lot of craziness, right? Um, to be able to automate things more and. Just to be able to forecast your revenue. I mean, who doesn't love going in and looking at the revenue you have set up in your future months? I don't know about you, but that's one of my very favorite reports to run.
It's like, where are we? Okay, what is the gap to where we need to get? How are we gonna get there? But I love seeing the jobs on the schedule ahead of time. Like there's nothing that gets me more excited than that. Yeah, for sure. So here's some cool, um, I was speaking to an accountant a year and a half ago, and we are talking about our regular revenue versus recurring revenue and the value of the company.
And this is what she told me, it broad strokes, this is not accounting advice for anybody but. Here's what I learned. That blew me away. So let's say you've got a million dollars in revenue and your, your EBITDA is 150,000, and hopefully it's more than that, but you got 150 net. And so as a business, you know, you own the business, it can run on its own.
You sell that, it's worth two to three times that ebitda. So just say it's worth. 450,000. That's it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's, that's nice. But that's it. She said if you took the exact same revenue from the same customers and made it monthly recurring, like a subscription model like you're talking about, and nothing changed, like million dollar, top line, one 50, bottom line, now it's worth eight to 10 times.
Woo. I like that. You go from four 50 to possibly 1.5 million. For the value of your company if you wanna sell it, just because you changed the way people pay. Is that crazy? Nothing else is different. That is crazy. Awesome. Yeah. So service agreements, service agree. You need to start marching. Yeah. Service agreements.
Yes. Yeah. Essays. We call 'em essays. Yeah. But, um, we've, we've started doing those. We, we do not have 20, we've sold two. So far since we started and, but it's like, I, I don't know that it's difficult to sell it because it's difficult sell or it's just 'cause we've done it a different way for so long that we're not confident that people should switch.
Yeah. Or they're just used to. What are you, what do you I think it's, I think it's scary to ask people, um, and you know, from a sales positioning, um, 'cause I can tell you my salespeople are scared to start and I have one CSR that's like, I still don't wanna touch service agreements. I'm like, well, we're gonna have to because, but I'm telling you, as soon as they got their first, like, yeah, I'll do that.
And sure, I'll, I'll, here's my credit card. I'll just go ahead and up upfront pay. Then now it's like, oh my God. We're gonna ask this all the time. No problem. So I think it's just getting over that hurdle and it is a different conversation because you are talking about long-term care and maintenance and, you know, it's, it's a different conversation and I think you have to build the value in that.
Um, but I'm gonna pull up, I actually have a service agreement dashboard on service type now. Okay. And so, yeah, I'm gonna pull it up really here real fast. I think I'm switching to a ServiceTitan owned company, by the way. It's called Field Routes, but they're Oh yeah. By ServiceTitan. Yeah, I think we're to 'em.
Cool. That's cool. Love that. Give it to your storefront. Is it all service agreement or is it just month to month? It's all month to month. Um, so we don't do any agreements, uh, I guess except for just month to month agreements. Um, but we have, I think 30% of our customers prepay. So I think we're, or close or we just surpassed the 40,000 a month in prepayments mark a couple months ago.
Um, so that was really cool. And you know, what was, what was helpful, um, was, I don't know if you guys have this with like how you guys are launching the service agreements, but I used to like, I. Uh, not paying attention to this 'cause I'm just not like a marketing guy and I don't think that way. And, but naming it, like giving it a name.
We used to just say subscription. Hey, can we put you on subscription? Yeah. And like at the Mastermind in July last year, shout out to, um, Kyle, uh, Kyle Ray from Austin. 'cause he said you should name it. And so we called it the always clean. Always clean program. A CP. Yeah. Uhhuh. And, and then we, we got rid of the word subscription.
Yeah. And we said nobody ever says subscription, say membership. And um, and I didn't realize how powerful that would be for my people. Like, I'm confident having the conversation I don't like, or, but for my admin, she is just crushing, putting on so many people on, on prepayments, on subscriptions. Because she's like, oh yeah, let me get you on our best program.
It's the a CP membership. You wanna be on this because you get X, Y, and Z. And giving her that name or that like title of it, just, she's rocking 'em out. It's been awesome to see that. That's cool. Love that. Yeah, that's very cool. And I like when you're so close to your business, like we did this, we, we kicked around two or three years ago, like, we need to get subscriptions.
And so we called it subscription then. Our company name is Spectrum. So we, we named it Spectrum Select like you could be on the Spectrum Select program. We thought that'd be great. And everybody's like, we, every time we bring it up, they're like, what is that? I don't get it. Like, it didn't make sense. And so now Gabe, we call ours always clean plan.
It's the acp, just like we just copied cotton. Like yeah, we tried probably five different names like Clearview. Co connect. I don't know. We had, you know, trying to make it catchy. Yeah. But nobody cared. And we, as soon as we said, always clean plan, it's like, set it and forget it. It's like the most convenient thing you can do to always make sure your home is maintained and people go, oh, I'm in.
That's it. Yeah. I mean, all two of them, we haven't had, we haven't sold 200, but the first two went. Love it. Thank God I never have to think about this again. It's just done. Yeah. Well, I'm looking at the dashboard. We haven't sold 200 yet either, so, but we're, we're in motion. We're in motion. I see numbers on this, on this dashboard.
We're, we're good. We're gonna keep rocking and rolling. That's cool. Um, yeah. I love that. Yeah. We're ours are clean and protect. Clean and protect service agreements, but. Um, I'm terrible when it comes to creative stuff like that. I either have to hire it or I have to, you know, chat. GPT is probably one of my best friends right now.
Right, right. Really great for stuff like that too. And so there, there are many ways you can do it in marketing world. Sometimes doing a catchy or making sure that you have alliteration. So it's the Spectrum Select or the Clearview Connect, whatever. Uhhuh. Sometimes that's right. And sometimes. It's just keeping it so basic.
Like if you go and a, a buddy of mine, big marketer, he said sometimes like if you're selling a horse, you don't need a headline, deadline, call to action, all that. You just go horse for sale, call this number. That's it. Yeah. You don't have to complicate it. You're like, you know when, when people have dirty windows and it's pollen season, they already know they want it clean.
You don't have to. Do anything. Yeah, you just go, we clean windows. That's, yeah. I literally just went out and trained one of my guys 'cause he's really good at talking to people, but his close rate is down and I had watched him on a couple doors and I was like, oh man, you just, you just gotta simplify it man.
Like it is maybe not as complex as the industry you came from. 'cause he was selling like some environmental service something. But, um, but yeah, it was just like, hey. You wanna get your windows cleaned? Alright. Like, yeah, we do a lot of the neighbors and so, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Years and years ago, well, 23 years ago when we started, we started with a simple flyer.
It was so ugly. I, I, I, I'm embarrassed to think of how those are the best ones. And yeah, it was like this stupid logo that like I made with Mac paint or whatever on old laptop, but it just said dirty windows we can help. And then Spectrum, here's the phone number. Fast estimate, whatever. It was just simple.
And it always, like, every time we distribute 'em, we get a one and half to 2%, uh, call, you know, response rate. People call Uhhuh Uhhuh and uh, like, and it's, we use the same message now, but a prettier picture and still it's a one and a half percent response rate no matter what. What was the best postcard you ever did, Gabe?
Best postcard. Yeah. Um, I don't think we've done any, we've never done mailers 'cause with the B2B. Okay. Whoever we, if it goes to the business, they typically, like the, the decision maker will not get that piece of mail. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, but I'm trying to think of one of the best pitches or something that we've done.
What about you, Sid? What's the best mailer you've done? While I think about our mailer. Okay, so it, it, it is not a mailer. It is one day, I, I had taken one of my vans to the car wash and it was early in March, mid-March, and I just thought, well, I'm gonna make a, a quick video and just put it on Facebook and promote it a little bit and just see what happens.
And I don't remember if we saw that this is a, a holiday or it's a made up holiday. It's clearly a made up holiday. March 23rd is National Chips and Salsa Day. So I literally, I stood on top of my van and did a face video of me with the mountains in the background. I'm like. Hey, one week from day, it's national chips and salsa day.
We know you love chips and salsa. It's my favorite snack. If you call this week and schedule the winter clinic, I'm gonna bring you a jar of homemade salsa and a bag of organic corn chips and that's it. I put it out and we got like 15 calls just from that, but one of them was a bank we had been trying to establish a relationship with for 10 years.
A guy called, and he is, we at that point, they had one big branch and we cleaned it once every year, and he's like. Let's schedule it in March instead of July. And I'm like, sweet. We went and I brought him his chip and salsa and he goes, you know what, we need this thing scheduled. And I was like, you need it twice here?
And he is like, no, three times we need it spring. And I'm like, fantastic. And then he's like, you know what? All the other branches, how often do you clean 'em? I'm like, only on request. We, we would love to do 'em. You know, like twice a year. He's like. I do 'em twice a year and they're like six other branches.
So that one bag of chips and salsa turned into a $900 job that day, but turned into a $9,000 a year contract for the last eight years. For less than $9. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Gimme that. Chips and salsa, we do it every year. We, we have so many that we give away now. We go buy salsa from this place by the gallon, and then we, you know, pour it up into jars and hand 'em out.
It's our big commercial contract. It's such a, such a great idea. I love that. Yeah. That is like, people just need a reason. It doesn't really matter what it is. Yeah. Okay. So the very first postcard mailer that I ever did was, you remember, and I'm probably WCR still do, does this, but you remember how like when you signed up for WCR R back in the day and like you had access to all their marketing stuff?
Yeah, and it had like the templates and all that. So I did one of their templates and it was. The spring cleaning checklist and it, but we modified it, so it's me, my face, like here up and I'm holding the clipboard. And then on the clipboard is like the spring cleaning checklist and I'm holding it like this.
Yeah. And we, we printed it on an eight and a half by 11. Postcard. Like a huge like regular sheet of paper size. Yeah. And we sent those out just to our customer database. Okay. Just to our customer database. And I'm not kid you customers, like I would go to clients' houses and they filed them away 'cause they were a regular size piece of paper.
So they would put 'em in their file cabinets and they pull. We had those things circulating for years. I'm not kidding. Oh, that's awesome. For years. And so I thought like, oh yeah, mailers, mailers, mailers. I've never had another one that had that much hype. Yeah. You should do like a follow up off that like, Hey, if you still have this thing, you get a discount.
Whoever's, I really feel like it was the size though, because like they felt like it was big enough they needed to hold onto it or something. I don't know. I don't.
We got a, a mailer in our mailbox, I think it was two years ago, and I swear, like when I opened the mailbox, there's just this thing, it's just a, it's a letter with a handwritten signature on it, and it was from some tree service like. Hey neighbor, this is Bob's Tree Service, and we've been doing a lot of work in your neighborhood, and we're gonna be working in your neighborhood for the next week.
Yeah. If you need any, you know, any trees taken down or stuff taken away, just let us know. And it was signed and I thought somebody just stuck it in the mailbox. And as a business owner, like I went to call the guy and say, Hey, you, you know, you're gonna get screwed. The, the fines for sticking people's, you know, stuff in people's mailbox is obscene.
Um, you might not wanna do that. Uh, and then I turned it over. It was, it was a, an EDDM. Yeah. Every door, direct mail, but it was just a sheet of paper, thick paper. I was like, that is brilliant, because it, yeah. I was like, everybody's gonna pick it up and read it. Yeah. Good job. Yeah. Alright, love it. So let's shift gears a little bit and, and then, um, I do have to wrap it up.
So let's start landing the plane with, what do you guys have going on? Like, we're first quarter's over, we're in the second quarter in Spring Rush. What do you focus on? In April and May or a quarter two, generally, we were talking earlier about, you know, the, it's the same cycle year round. You go around, the same things are coming up.
You need to remember what happened last year, the year before. What are you focusing on now for this quarter? I, I'll tell you what I'm, oh, go ahead, Sheila. Okay. I'm focused on revenue, revenue, revenue. I'm focused on quality. I'm focused on creating the. Because we see the most amount of clients this time of year.
And from following that whole entire customer life cycle, creating the absolute best high class experience for them from the lead generation all the way through to getting them back on the schedule again. And so quality and just like turning. 'cause if I can turn all of these customers that we're getting ready to touch into recurring clients, like that's, mm-hmm.
That's my goal. That's my goal is to, you know, hit a certain percentage, turn 'em into recurring clients, make sure that all of them know about our service agreements, all of them know about how to rebook again, that it's just happening throughout that whole customer life cycle. Um, that's what I'm focused on right now.
Hell yeah. Okay. Gabe. Um, similar to Sheila Revenue, just looking at what we did in Q1. So the big thing is where do we fall behind? And if we did, how are we gonna get caught up? Especially because this is an easy time to get caught up where customers are thinking about it. Like we were talking about with the spring cleanings and the pollens and the patio washes.
So that's our big focus. Um, where did we miss, like in Nashville, we missed our sales goal per week. By one salesperson. We have two full-time and three, we had a third that would fall off and on. And if we just had that third locked in, Nashville would've hit its sales goal every single week. Mm-hmm. And so that's the big push right now.
And then I think, going back to your question earlier, Syd, like the economy and how people are feeling. Um, that's one of the things that we've been pushing in the company because I think. I think we could feel it from our customers. We, every January I, I typically see it where the end of the year and the beginning of a new one is when a lot of businesses we're all commercial.
So that's when a lot of business owners decide, we're not gonna do this again. Like December is like, we're gonna shut our business down. Mm-hmm. And so, um, I think in Q1 we had 60,000 in annual revenue cancel, and 30% of it was due to business closure And. Another 30% was due to people just cutting back expenses.
Yeah. So the big push for us has been, hey, like people are looking at their dollars and what they're spending it on, and we gotta make sure that they don't question the value that they're getting from us. And so we've been pushing, like Sheila mentioned, just, Hey, we gotta do a great job every visit. Um mm-hmm.
So that people don't start to think about, maybe they could cut this. Maybe they don't need to go without it if they're already right. Giving us their dollars. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. We, um, same here, you know, revenue. So like the, the biggest time of year for new clients to, like, the easiest time to catch a fish is when the fish will buy.
Yeah. Mm-hmm. And that's spring cleaning. And we've never been able to expand our capacity enough to take, you know, like to capture all the leads that come. We end up booked too far out and people are like, I had to call somebody else. So we're working really hard to make sure that we've maximized our capacity.
Yes. And one, one thing we're doing this year that's been pretty effective, we, one, we did a 15% price increase for all of our residential clients. And if somebody says, if they complain about it, they're not happy, like, oh, blah, blah, blah. We, we give 'em an option. Right? Then it's like, if you wanna keep your same price book now for July or August, 'cause that's when we dip.
We're like, we will not raise your price if you book in August. Mm-hmm. And plus in August we donate 10% of our, our proceeds to a children's shelter. So like it's a double win for you. And so what we are doing with that is if we can push off our spring rush, you know, if we put 10,000 into August, that helps August.
Mm-hmm. But also gives us $10,000 more space for people that do not care about price. They're new customers and they're calling in, they're like, we go, here's a quote. And they go, let's do it. Yeah. They're not price conditioned to a lower price. They're just like, that's price. Let's go. Um, and then figuring out how we can push capacity.
We've, we've get like our, uh, everybody on the team this year is required to be on call one Saturday a month. So that gives us eight more days Yep. Of cleaning it for April, may, and June that we can push more capacity so that. Little things. We're having the same conversations. Yeah, we're having the same conversations and strategies in my company, Syd.
And it's like just coming in 45 an hour earlier in the day, like how can we just squeeze the most out of, um, that, and we, and having minimum stop charges this time of year is a no-brainer. Um, you won't go do a job unless it's X amount of dollars based on like, you know, what you just said. Um. Why, when, why, when you can keep the schedule open for that customer that's gonna pay your premium.
Why are you gonna book a $200 job to go do something? And we also took some of our services that we don't wanna do this time of year because we can be doing a lot of more lucrative services this time of year and just said, we just don't do 'em. Between April and July, I think it was said, um, May 1st through August 1st.
We just don't do that service and they're booking anyway. For later. For later. That's great. Totally. It's like, no, it's crazy. We don't, we just decided this is not a great service for this time of year and, um, we, it's better off at this time of year and they're just booking. I love that. It's so we, I, hmm.
We tend to, I complicate stuff or I'll go, oh, nobody will go for that. And then you turn out, you just offer it and people go, yeah, that sounds great. Yeah, just do it. Hey, well, I'm gonna look at my crystal ball into the future over the next, uh, the next few weeks, the next six weeks. We, we've got episodes are already already recorded and coming out.
Uh, Sheila, your interview with Jared Skinner, you got Larry Benham? Um, Greg Hiller. Greg Did Gabe, or Sheila, did you interview Greg? I interviewed Greg. Greg. Okay. Yeah. Great. That was such a great conversation. Oh. What a good guy. Yeah. And then, uh, James Hatfield, he's the Chief Revenue Officer of Live Switch, that he's got a really interesting story.
Um, and then John Zen and, uh, Gabe, you interviewed him, right? Oh, yeah. I've inter interviewed John. Yeah. Yeah. What a good dude. Those are just, that's just in the next, uh, few weeks coming up, and then I'm looking forward to. More interviews, more fun, more stories about growth and transformation from folks just like you and I that like started with a bucket and a dream and then they got crazy.
Now they've got two buckets, like you're really killing. Yeah. Yeah. You're, I loved your conversation with Brandon Vaughn. Syd. That was great. He, he's such a great guy and, and like he's got a big story from. You know, one guy to 40 trucks or 70 p what? Like a lot of, A lot of growth and lot of pockets. Yeah.
And then when you talk to him, you go, oh, he's just a regular guy. He did that. I could do that. Yeah. Like, I thought you had to be super human to grow something cool. Nope. You know, well just have to know what to do. So, so I have one more que I have one question. Yeah. How do I get a cool background? Like you have a cool background.
Yeah. How do I get that? I, I will send you this image so you can use it for your, yeah. Okay. Does it show up forward or, or reverse type the way you're seeing it, right. Can you read it says the huge mm-hmm. Yeah. It's, it's for me to read Yes. Left to right. Yep. Yeah. For, for me, it's reverse like you're looking in the rear view mirror, reading it backwards.
I'm like, oh, what does it say?
This is the huge. Well, cool. Well it's, it is great to see you guys. Thanks for spending a little time for, uh, just to catch up. As the host of the show, we're always asking the questions and getting other people's stories. We rarely get to share our story. Or, you know, nobody's asking the interviewer. Like Sheila, like you said, the interviewers are interviewing the interviewers today.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't try this at home if you're driving. Yeah. Don't this, not that out loud, aneu. Alright, everybody's listening. Thanks so much for spending your time with us. It's always a ton of fun. Um, hopefully you find value even in a silly conversation like this because we're talking in real time about what's working now about.
Things that we're seeing in our own business and not just, you know, with the interviews that we do. Um, and also, you know, we're like, I'm, I was taking notes, Sheila, while we were talking about your service agreement and am like always learning from you guys. Thank you very much. Yeah, thank you guys. This was fun.
 

16: The Larry Benham Episode

In this episode of the Huge Transformations Podcast, host Sid Graef interviews Houston-based entrepreneur Larry Benham, who has spent nearly a decade in the power washing and soft washing business—and recently launched a successful trash bin cleaning service. Larry explains how he grew multiple home service businesses by leveraging relationships, seeking out commercial contracts, and diversifying his offerings. He shares his “Ross Perot” sales strategy of securing sales before equipment purchase, the importance of asking for deposits, and how simple demonstrations can reel in additional customers on the spot. Larry also reveals a unique fundraising idea—partnering with local youth sports teams to sell his services door-to-door—which quickly added hundreds of new customers. He emphasizes consistent branding, exploring new income streams, and always continuing to learn from mentors, masterminds, and peers.
Show Notes
Guest:
Larry Benham – Houston, Texas-based entrepreneur in power washing, soft washing, and trash bin cleaning.
Key Topics Discussed:
Transitioning into Power Washing: Moved from real estate to landscaping and then accidentally discovered lucrative builder contracts.
Ross Perot Sales Method: Sell first, then acquire equipment—don’t be afraid to test demand.
Asking for Deposits: Ensures clients have skin in the game and prevents wasted scheduling.
Diversification: Jumping into trash bin cleaning for recurring monthly revenue and potential franchising.
Unique Fundraising Approach: Enlisting local sports teams to sell trash bin cleaning services door-to-door, creating win-win community partnerships.
Working with Commercial Clients: Seeking municipality and commercial contracts for stable, larger-ticket work.
Importance of Mentorship: Consulting with peers and experienced professionals to navigate obstacles.
References & Mentions:
Ross Perot (entrepreneur and founder of EDS): 
IBM 
Bimbo Bakeries 
Alex Hormozi 
Marine Corps 
Founders Podcast 
John T (industry educator)
Resources 
The Huge Insider newsletter signup
The Huge Insider podcast downloadable action guide
The Foundations platform trial offer
The Huge Mastermind info page
Facebook
 
Transcript:
[Sid Graef]:Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Huge Transformations Podcast. I'm Sid Graef out of Montana.
[Gabe Torres]:I'm Gabe Torres here in Nashville, Tennessee.
[Sheila Smeltzer]:And I'm Sheila Smeltzer from North Carolina. We're your hosts and guides through the landscape of growing a successful home service business. We do this by interviewing the best home service business builders in the industry—folks that have already built seven- and eight-figure businesses, and they want to help you succeed.
[Gabe Torres]:Yep. No fake gurus on this show. Just real-life owners that have been in the trenches and can help show you the way to grow profitably. We get insights and truths from successful business builders, and every episode is 100 percent experience, zero percent theory.
[Sheila Smeltzer]:We're going to dig deep and reveal the good, the bad, and the ugly. Our guests will share with you the pitfalls to avoid and the keys to winning. In short, our guests will show you how to transform your home service business into a masterpiece.
[Sid Graef]:Thanks for joining us on the wild journey of entrepreneurship. Let's dive in.
[Sid Graef]:Welcome back, my friend. Good to see you again. This is Sid with the Huge Transformation Podcast. As you can hear, I kind of lost my voice a little bit today, so I don't want that to be distracting for you. When you hear the interview with Larry Benham, I got Larry on the show today. He's a member of our mastermind. He's been in business for 35-plus years, but he's a guy that's not afraid to make changes. He had a career in real estate, and then he sort of accidentally got started in the landscaping business, and then he really accidentally got started in the power wash and soft wash business, at which he's done exceptionally well in the Houston marketplace. Then he added a new business line less than two years ago.
There's a ton to learn and glean from Larry. One thing I want you to look for is when he talks about the “Ross Perot Sales Method.” It's so simple but overlooked—and so incredibly valuable. I won't reveal what it is now; you'll hear it on the show. And again, everything we talk about in the show is going to be in the show notes. I appreciate you being back and listening. Please meet my friend, Larry Benham.
[Sid Graef]:Well, hello, everyone. This is Sid with Huge Transformations, and I have my friend Larry Benham on the show with us today. I met Larry only a year ago at the Huge Convention. He came to one of our mastermind visitors’ days, and then he joined the mastermind. It's really interesting. And Larry, I don't know how long you've been in business. You've definitely got a journey behind you. Your current business—Larry’s in Houston, Texas, and he's got a large trash bin cleaning company with…you told me how many trucks you had ordered. So here's what I'm going to do, Larry: would you fill in the blanks? I know you're in trash bin cleaning now—you've been in business for a good long while. Tell me, tell everybody a little bit about yourself currently. Then I'm gonna go back in time and see where you started in business.
[Larry Benham]:Okay. My name is Larry Benham, as it says. I am actually in the trash bin cleaning business in addition to soft washing and pressure washing, just like everybody else in the industry, it seems like. I've been doing this for nine years straight now. This is my ninth year. Sid was correct: we met just about a year ago, but that was my second convention at the Huge, and it is something I will never miss again.
[Sid Graef]:That's good to hear. We didn't run you off. We didn't send you down the flogging lane, you know, that we take people down—no. So you've been in the home service industry for nine years.
[Larry Benham]:Yes, sir.
[Sid Graef]:Tell us a little bit about your journey. Like, how did you get into home services? What were you doing beforehand?
[Larry Benham]:Well, actually, I've been in it a little longer. Many years ago, I was in the real estate game and investments. I sold my business and decided to sit back a little bit and then take time. I actually started doing landscaping and lawn yards again—just started cutting grass, bored, because I didn't have anything else to do. I took that company and grew it in three years from one lawnmower, one weed eater, a blower...and we were doing 486 residential yards a week, 77 commercial contracts, and we were handling seven homebuilders as well before I sold it.
Somebody wanted to merge with me; I didn't want to do that, and I ended up turning around and selling it. The main reason why I sold it—which really may be a good thing for other folks in our industry to look into—one of the homebuilders asked me one day if I would pressure wash a driveway. I said, “I don't even own a pressure washer.” I asked him how much he was going to pay me to do the job, and he said, “Oh, I'm gonna pay you 150 bucks.” I said, “It's not worth my time. Not going to do it.” These were new home builds, so basically all you're really doing is rinsing it off. He goes, “No, no, you're coming back to each house. You're going to do it four times.” I'm like, “So 600? We can do this.”
[Sid Graef]:Wow.
[Larry Benham]:I said, “How many houses?” He goes, “All of them in this community—just that one community.” They were building like 300 houses, I think. So I ended up just starting with a little itty-bitty one from Tractor Supply Company, and saw the writing on the wall and figured, “This is better than cutting grass.” And that's how it all started. I have one homebuilder to thank for opening my eyes to it. Then my single biggest customer still to this date is Bimbo, who gave me an opportunity for the commercial bids, and took off running.
[Sid Graef]:Wow. Well, one thing—that's a pretty exceptional first client: somebody that says, “We've got 300 of these.”
[Larry Benham]:Yeah, the homebuilder. I was actually managing seven homebuilders at the time, so I picked up all of them and ended up going from that little itty-bitty machine I bought at Tractor Supply to buying a trailer and just running all around and doing it. Then it snowballed and just kept getting bigger and bigger every day.
[Sid Graef]:When that happened, did you see it as a big opportunity, or just a good opportunity?
[Larry Benham]:I saw it as a really great opportunity. Just like everything, from the landscaping thing to coming into the pressure washing business, I hate to say it, but there are—someone pointed this out to me a long time ago—there are three kinds of pressure washing companies out there: there’s Chuck in a truck, there's contracts, and there's professionals. You work your way up, and you just become one of the top dogs. The opportunity is there. There's nothing wrong with competition, but you have to continually learn and educate yourself and make yourself stand out above everybody else.
[Sid Graef]:Yeah, for sure. What are some of the ways that—early on or now—you and your company with your soft wash and pressure wash stand out? What’s your difference?
[Larry Benham]:I guess we've been around so long, we have a good name here in the Houston area and beyond. A lot of commercial contracts, residential. When I first started, I did the builders and a lot of contacts I had. I was fortunate to get some commercial deals as well. Then even—I did the whole Angie’s List thing back then. I really figured that was the right way to go. It definitely wasn't, because you’re basically working for them. But then it was just word of mouth—keeping your commitments, keeping your business straight, and getting your name out there. As a matter of fact, I didn't have a website for two years when I first started pressure washing because I sold it when I sold the lawns, and everything. I let that one go, didn't even have a new one, and didn't have time to really sit down and do it. I was so busy with friends, family, and all the other business that was coming after us.
It was great—great times, and still is today.
[Sid Graef]:That's a great position to be in, where business is coming in fast enough and reliably enough that you don't have to stress about, “Gotta find some work, gotta find some work.”
[Larry Benham]:Yeah. It's so funny. I just thought about it the other day. I didn't do it this year, but last year, the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo is this time of year. They called me last year, two days before the rodeo was set to begin, and—ironically about this—they said, “Can you come see us to show you something, see if you can handle it for us?” And I said, “Okay.” I went over there. I don’t know if you're familiar with where the Texans play football, the NRG Stadium. Every year for the rodeo, they bring dirt in for the rodeo on the concrete. I was actually there when they just started rolling it in. I said, “Well, what's the problem?” They're like, “Do you see that dust cloud starting?” I said, “Yeah.” I asked, “When are they going to be done with the dirt?” They said, “Two days.”
They were literally running dump trucks straight, 24 hours a day, for two days—a little over two days—which created a dust cloud. They wanted the whole stadium, all the seats, washed down before the rodeo started. They said, “We're going to finish—” I had about 48 hours to get it done. Luckily, we had lights and we never stopped, and we got it taken care of. To be honest with you, 35,000 in two days is not a bad ticket.
[Sid Graef]:That's not a bad ticket. That's really cool.
[Larry Benham]:It was a great experience. It was a great experience.
[Sid Graef]:Most of your early business was built on relationships. Did that come about by an existing relationship, or did they find you some other way?
[Larry Benham]:A lot of existing relationships, but then a lot of friends and family were calling me, and my name just got out there. Even—a lot of people don’t understand this because I'm in Houston, but the coast is not far away. Maybe in the coastal areas or other parts of the country, they need to realize those beach houses have to be rinsed off every year. They have to be cleaned every year because of the salt air. I literally have customers now, for five, six years, I've never met in my entire life. We're on schedule. They call me, or I call them, and just go do it, send them a bill, and they pay it. I've never met them. That's a huge recurring business for us—it really is.
[Sid Graef]:That's fantastic. Also, there has to be something along the way that built and developed enough trust between that person and you that they trust your company to get it done sight unseen, as far as them not having to be there—you've never met them, you’ve done it for five years, and they keep doing it.
[Larry Benham]:Correct.
[Sid Graef]:Where did that come from? Is that still word of mouth?
[Larry Benham]:Word of mouth, yes. Now the website, obviously, is up and moving, and you're always going through hiccups with that—always fine-tuning it. But the name recognition is out there. I did do the radio for about a year, which even got me more phone calls. But it wasn't the best because some of the phone calls, I'd get a lot of elderly folks that couldn't afford to pay us. Or they all need discounts or help, which is part of life. You do your best to help everybody, and maybe I'm just a sucker because I do help the elderly more than anybody—I really do—because I understand the fixed income. If we have to take a little bit of a hit, we're going to do it for them, which goes a long way.
[Sid Graef]:It does go a long way. There's something I heard one time from an ancient text of wisdom that said, “Give, and you shall receive.” You're probably familiar with that.
[Larry Benham]:Oh, yeah, it's true. As a matter of fact, I did that today. I actually had a lady call me yesterday—or call in, or whatever she did—and I went over and looked at the house myself. They're an elderly couple, and they wanted the house cleaned because of HOA. I told her a price, and she said, “Oh, that's out of our budget.” I understand that. I said, “Well, tell me what we can do to make this work for you. How much can you afford?” She told me. So we're going to do the job for that. So it took a hit, but sometimes you just have to do that because it does go a real long way.
[Sid Graef]:That's true. That's true. Good. So along the way, you've grown a couple of different businesses. You were in real estate, then you transitioned to lawn maintenance and landscaping, and then accidentally but now very much on purpose into the power wash and soft wash business. Along the way, you added trash bin cleaning. When did you add that?
[Larry Benham]:Just last year. I just started. Yes, brand new for us, really. We got started with it. We sort of hesitated for about a year; I had a little bit of a health scare, so I got slowed down a little bit. But it is an up-and-coming industry—it really is—and I'm trying to captivate all of it here in Houston.
[Sid Graef]:Yeah.
[Larry Benham]:You know what it does—there's a lot of folks ask me, “Why don’t I do Christmas lights?” There's a lot of folks that do them. I don't care to do them. I think the guys need a break in December—that downtime—but also the trash bins are 12 months out of the year. It's a 12-month contract you sign with those who do it, so you have revenue coming in every month. And then we go back to the commercial customers a little bit. Municipalities always call us at the end of the year where they have to spend money.
But back to the trash bin thing—great, great business: recurring residential, and it just keeps building. The best single day was when I was still driving the truck the first two weeks. I showed up at one appointment and ended up—before I even moved the truck—I ended up doing five houses because they heard the truck, they saw the truck. So one neighbor called, another neighbor called, another neighbor called, and they all just started walking out. It's a very catchy thing. Right now, we have two trucks here, a third one is being built right now, and we also have our first franchise going in Miami next month.
[Sid Graef]:Oh, no kidding. Congratulations. That's great.
[Larry Benham]:That is great.
[Sid Graef]:I’ve been listening to the Founders Podcast—it's all about great business founders and their biographies, mostly U.S.-based but they're all over the world. Estée Lauder built, from poverty, a multibillion-dollar empire, and she said, “The best advertising will never, ever beat an effective demonstration.” And when you said, “I was cleaning one and then got four or five more before I moved the trucks because people saw what was going on. They’re like, ‘Oh, crap—do that for me,’” that’s a built-in, get-paid-to-market marketing campaign on its own. I like that.
[Larry Benham]:Matter of fact, the very first truck I went to pick up, I was driving it back from Michigan. I just got into Houston, and it was ironic—I had to call the maker of the trucks. I was laughing because there was literally somebody calling off of the advertisement on the side of the truck, and I hadn't even gotten back to my shop yet.
[Sid Graef]:That's so good. That's great. It seems you haven't had a horrible struggle to get more business—people call you before you even start.
[Larry Benham]:No, but you're always going to have to try new things. I'm not a real big fan of print ads anymore because people don't really read magazines anymore. Google ads do well, especially down here; they have done a really great deal for us in the trash bin industry. Believe it or not, Facebook campaigns— I always tell people, I believe in the Ross Perot method of selling. If you remember who Ross Perot was…
[Sid Graef]:I remember. What’s his method?
[Larry Benham]:Well, his method was quite ingenious. He worked for IBM a long, long time ago, and he left them and went on his own. He went back to IBM a short while later and said, “I need you to build me a thousand computers, and I want them built this way.” They laughed at him. They said, “We'll build them, but good luck selling them.” He goes, “Oh, I've already sold them. I just need you to build them for me.” So I did the same thing with the trash bin deal. A week before we even had the truck, we launched a Facebook campaign, and before the truck even arrived here, we had 128 new customers.
[Sid Graef]:That's fantastic.
[Larry Benham]:And of course, you gotta remember your current base and your cross-selling. That's the big thing about it. I have—what—6,700 current customers that I started calling, too.
[Sid Graef]:I'm going to back up and ask you a different question: you shared this with me briefly—we talked about it in the mastermind a couple of weeks ago. One of the things we were talking about was a revenue expansion plan. You've got this plan for growth, and that means more revenue—and hopefully more profits. You had a very unique thing that you implemented and tested this year, to great effect. For everybody else in the world: you know how your kids have to go sell candy bars to raise money for gymnastics or soccer teams? Well, you took a spin on that, and it's been very effective. Can you walk us through it? Tell us about it. Tell us what the results have been so far.
[Larry Benham]:Okay. As you said, all of our kids have had to sell something at some point in time, and they're not making that much money off of the product they're selling. I'm 61, and I remember selling those candy bars; they're still selling them today. So what I came up with is: why not help the kids get your name out there? What we've done is we've teamed up with a Little League baseball team—actually three teams. There's 30, 11 kids on each team, three teams—and instead of them selling candy bars, they're going to be out there selling our trash bin service. I cut a deal with them because we're doing a one-time special for 35 for two cans, and we're going to give the kids 10 bucks for every house they do.
Is it a high-ticket item for me to pay that kind of money? Yes and no. I mean, you're going to pay for marketing in any which way, but you're also helping the kids. So our first go-around, we did it—great success. The kids guaranteed me, and they've exceeded it, 300—and each kid, 10 clients, 10 customers. So we’re at 330, and I think their count right now is over 400.
[Sid Graef]:Wow.
[Larry Benham]:It's great. I mean, nobody's going to say no to a kid. Your neighbor’s not going to say no to your child who's selling something they want—I mean, no offense. The wife may want the trash can cleaned; the husband doesn't want to do it. It's a great avenue, and you're doing something for the community. It was my test market, and now I'm going to be pushing it to other schools and other organizations around here.
[Sid Graef]:I just think that's fantastic. The annual revenue for a customer, if they stay for one year, is…
[Larry Benham]:It’s 35 for one time, so the way I came up with this—and we thought about this in our original mastermind that I was at—you know, we wanted a 10,000 idea. For me, revenue-wise, that was almost 12,000. It'll be greater than that now. I don't even have a bottom-line number; I'll get back to you when we finally close the books on that one. But it's a great deal. Another aspect of it is—like in any industry, if it's pressure washing or soft washing or windows, you're driving from point to point to point to point. The best part is these kids are all in the same neighborhood. They all live there, so once you get into a neighborhood, you're there with all the kids and with all the parents. It's really a helpful thing.
So that's what we're doing.
[Sid Graef]:Yeah, I like that. That's fantastic. So I'm going to step into something slightly different because you've seen enough business cycles. I'm sure you've had times when you ran into an obstacle so big you didn't know how to solve it. Maybe you tried something that just fell flat on its face, you picked yourself up, moved on. What did you learn from that?
[Larry Benham]:I don't know if it was a failure, but it was an opportunity I can tell you about. One of the reasons why I went to the very first Huge was a couple of years ago, just to listen to John T teach about the garage business—the garage cleaning business. That's why I went. I wanted to see him and understand what it's all about. Houston has a very big market for that—had, let me say that—had a very big market for that. And I'm so glad because I came back, excited, and was getting ready to purchase all the equipment. It's a really big investment to get a division like that set up. That's when the commercial real estate just took a dive here in Houston. If I would have moved forward—I was going to spend anywhere from 250,000 to 300,000—I would not have gotten that money back.
It’s a great time now. We have parking garages here that you can get, and you do get, that are 100,000 a pop, but they're just not doing it when you’ve got a 15 percent occupancy rate. Downtown Houston has just taken a massive hit in general. I do tell people we have a firm policy—I don't care who you are anymore—we will not start a job unless we have half our money up front. I did lose some money on a property management company that I'd been doing work for quite a while, and one of their properties went under. I took about a 5,400 hit just on that one property.
[Sid Graef]:Do you get very much pushback on commercial contracts when you say, “I need half up front”?
[Larry Benham]:No, I don't. Don't be afraid to ask for it. Some of them, I will tell you, there's one at Bimbo—I'm sure you know who Bimbo is. They're my single biggest customer. I don't ask them for a thing because I've never had an issue with them, and they wouldn't do it anyway. But most folks understand—even individuals, we do the same thing with residential jobs now, just because we don't know. That's a valuable lesson because many years ago, I remember going out there to give an estimate on a house. I gave it and made a deal with one lady, and her neighbor was catty-corner, so we made a deal on both the houses. While I showed up the following week to do the job, one of them was done and the guy was on the other house.
[Sid Graef]:Oh, wow.
[Larry Benham]:The homeowner was kind of funny. He was standing in the driveway looking at it. I said, “I'm here to clean the driveway.” He goes, “Well, he made a better deal with us.” I said, “Well, you didn't bother to call me and tell me. I'm not mad about that,” but they just worked me, worked my numbers, to get to them. They got what they wanted. The bad part about it is, it taught me a valuable lesson right then: make sure people have skin in the game. If you're giving a number, stick to your number—don't cave. And don't be afraid to ask for more than what most people do. I'd rather have higher-paying tickets—fewer numbers, greater return—instead of having to run all around town. I can do five houses a day versus ten houses a day.
[Sid Graef]:For sure, for sure. Years ago, we lived in Florida—my wife and family—and we were window cleaning and power washing, and I started doing roofs, but I didn't charge enough. I was “Chuck in a truck.” When I'd sell a job, I'd just say, “We'll power wash your roof, it'll look great, it's going to be 900.” I was articulate enough, I'd dress nice, I'd get the job, but I didn't really have a technique. I sold that business to a friend of mine, and then I went with him on one of his estimates. He did the exact same thing I did, except he said, “When we do your roof, we have a seven-step process: we do A, we do B...” He described them. I'm like, “Why is he calling them that? That's what we do. We do the same thing.” But he said, “It's a seven-step process,” and his price was triple what I charged, and they said yes to him faster than I'd ever gotten a yes. Then he said, “We need a 50 percent deposit in order to schedule you,” demanded it.
Skin in the game, selling for three times as much—I was like, “Man, have I been missing something big?” It taught me about sales and commitment. That's cool.
[Larry Benham]:I like doing it that way, very much so.
[Sid Graef]:Okay, good. During the course of what we've talked about, your businesses—I can't say they've grown themselves, but you've done things in a principled way, so they've grown with your impetus but kind of on their own. It sounds like you haven't had horrible struggles to get more business. People call you before you even start. I'm sure there's something else along the way, so let's get into that bigger question. We can’t always control the market or the economy. Storms come and go. You can only control what you do. You can advertise more, you can ask for referrals, but you can't control a huge recession if it comes. From your perspective, you've at least been through the real estate burst and crash from 2008, and other gyrations in the last 20 years. What's your perspective on, “When stuff happens, how do you respond?”
[Larry Benham]:I hate to say it like the old Marine Corps saying, “Adapt and overcome.” You have to figure out what's going to make you better and keep you afloat when you see these hard times coming. That's one reason—honestly—why you shouldn't be afraid to diversify into another field. Going back to COVID for a second: COVID was devastating to the world, but unfortunately, a lot of folks lost their job. A lot of folks went to Home Depot and Lowe’s and bought pressure washers. Did they hurt me personally? Nah. But did they hurt some other folks? Sure, because you had folks wanting or needing to get their houses cleaned; more folks were home, more folks saw things that needed to be done, so they wanted it done. But then you were competing against guys saying, “A hundred bucks.” That’s just not us. Hold your guns, and if you have to diversify and figure out another way to keep a stream of income coming in—maybe a lower ticket item. People are not going to spend two or three thousand to have their house cleaned, but will people turn around and spend 35 to have their trash can cleaned? Sure, they'll do that. Think outside the box—really think outside the box. Don't be stuck on “I have to get more of this job or that job.” Think of other ways you can actually bring more income to yourself.
[Sid Graef]:Very good. In that context, you said you've got your first franchise starting in Florida—you said Miami.
[Larry Benham]:Yes, sir.
[Sid Graef]:When is that officially open? You've got a truck order on the way…
[Larry Benham]:The truck is being wrapped, I think, next week. It'll be up and running in probably two weeks maximum. The other thing is, I didn't really plan on franchising. They approached me about a year ago, and I said no. My whole thing is, I wanted to capture Texas. I wanted to have Houston, Austin, Dallas, maybe San Antonio—just be happy with it here. But then they came to me again, and I said, “I'm not going to open up in all these other cities. I've got four million people here in Houston; we’re doing fine.” Then they came in and saw me and talked me into it. It's something where I can grow the company and make other people money and have fun doing it, and not have the investment of opening other cities.
So it's a great thing. One of the things that we're offering and helping people with the franchise is, when you buy a franchise, you have to fork up some money up front, but then you also have to buy equipment. Unfortunately, I've learned this when I was doing trash bins—banks don't like loaning money to companies that are starting something. If you walk into a car dealership, they'll give you a loan because the car is there. Same thing with this industry. Fortunately enough, I was able to get my equipment, but I'm actually building one for the franchises. I've already got one sitting on the ground all the time for my franchise.
[Sid Graef]:Oh, wow.
[Larry Benham]:So I'll always have a steady stream of them.
[Sid Graef]:Great. As we wrap up here today, think of the guy…a lot of people come to the Huge Convention, they're newer in business, or maybe their big goal is: “I did a quarter of a million revenue last year, I need to get to a million,” or “I'm at half a million, I'm trying to figure out how to break that million-dollar mark or go beyond.” What advice would you give to someone who is newer in business and in growth mode but doesn't have the experience? We'll call him “Mr. Young Hustle.” He's trying to grow. He doesn’t know all the steps. What's your advice?
[Larry Benham]:Mr. Young Hustle is probably out there knocking on doors, going after the residential jobs. Those are fantastic—they're your base, they're long-term—but you've got to start searching out facility managers. You've got to start searching out folks with the city. Municipalities are everywhere, spending money every year, and they're always good for October, November, last-minute, “Spend that money before we lose it.” Don't be—I mean, yeah, that’s just how our government runs. And don't be afraid. I learned a long time ago, you’ve got to get ten no’s before you get a yes. Don't get discouraged. Wake up every day, grind at it, and pick up the phone. Call friends, call mentors—find you a mentor, find you a good guy that'll help you, teach you, and just listen. Always good advice. I have a gentleman I still listen to, to this day, and if I needed help or advice, I'd call him. I've called you; I've called John as well—calling for information. I don't know everything, and I don't know anybody that does. You've got to depend on each other, and that's what I think the Huge Mastermind that we do is fantastic for. There are folks I met there two years ago—the very first mastermind I did—that was fantastic. Like with the door-to-door sales thing—I know we're cutting or wrapping up really fast—but the door-to-door deal, I was apprehensive about doing it because I had the stigmatism from the vacuum-cleaner guys, the encyclopedia-selling guys, but there was a couple of different guys at the show you told me to talk to, and I did. They explained to me the whole process, and now we're launching that here next week as well. We have tablets for everybody; we've got a door-to-door program, and it is fantastic. There's even parts of that that I didn't know. The young lady asked me about something: “How many do you want them to sell every day?” and I really didn't have a clue of the numbers I'm expecting each person to sell yet. So there's still a learning curve every day that we have to overcome, but don't be afraid—pick up the phone and ask for help.
[Sid Graef]:Especially as we grow or mature in business, that's just such good advice. You have to constantly read and study your industry and not just the industry but how to run a business—what to do.
[Larry Benham]:One of my high school principals taught me when I was in high school: every morning, you wake up and write down your deals—what you have to do today. I still do it every single day. I have a list that I run off. I have three separate lists I run off every single day. Will you accomplish everything on that list every day? No, but you're going to delete some and add more every day. Have a plan. When you build a house, what do you have? You have blueprints. Same thing when you're running a business: you have to have a plan every single day when you wake up.
[Sid Graef]:Agreed. Agreed. Great. Well, listen, thanks—first of all, thanks for being on the show and taking your time.
[Larry Benham]:Thank you.
[Sid Graef]:Yeah, I really appreciate having you on, and really appreciate having you as part of the mastermind and your willingness to help other people as well, to help them grow along their journey.
[Larry Benham]:Thank you very much.
[Sid Graef]:All right, pal.
[Sid Graef]:Hello, my friend, this is Sid. Thank you again so much for taking your time to listen to today's episode. I hope you got some value from it. And listen—anything that was covered, any of the resources, any of the books, any of the tools, anything like that is in the show notes, so it's easy for you to find and check out. Also want to let you know: the mission for the Huge Convention and for this podcast is to help our blue-collar business owners like you and me to gain financial and time freedom through running a better business. We do that in four ways:
Number one is our free weekly newsletter. It's called the Huge Insider. I hope you subscribe. It is the most valuable newsletter for the home service industry, period—paid or otherwise—and this one's free.
Next is the Huge Foundations education platform. We've got over 120 hours of industry-specific education and resources for you, and every month we do a topical webinar and we do Q&A with seven- and eight-figure business owners. It’s available to you for a 1 trial for seven days.
Next, of course, is the Huge Convention—or The Huge Convention. If you haven't been, you got to check it out. It's every August; this year it's in Nashville, Tennessee. That's August 20th through 22nd in 2025, and it is the largest and number-one-rated trade show and convention for home service business builders. We've got the biggest trade show so you can check out all the coolest tools and meet the vendors and check out the software to run your business. And we've got world-class education and educators and speakers that will teach you how to run a better business. And it's the best networking opportunity that you can have within the home service business.
Lastly, if you want to pour jet fuel into your business, check out the Huge Mastermind. It's not for everyone: you've got to be over 750,000 of revenue, and you're building toward 1 million, 5 million, 10 million in the next five years. It's a network, mentorship, and mastermind of your peers, and we help you understand and implement the Freedom Operating System. We go into more detail, but you can get all the information on all four of these programs and how they will help you advance your business quickly just by going to thehugeconvention.com and scrolling down—click on the Freedom Path. Or, of course, you can find the links here in the show notes.
Sorry—I feel like I'm getting a little bit wordy, but I just want to let you know of the resources that are available to help you accelerate and advance your beautiful small business. So keep on growing, keep on learning, keep advancing. If you like the show, please take 90 seconds and give us a review on iTunes, then subscribe and share it. It would really mean the world to us. It would help other people as we continue our mission to help people just like you and me.
Thanks again for listening. We'll see you on the next episode.

15: The Jared Skinner Episode

In this episode of the Huge Transformations Podcast, host Sheila welcomes entrepreneur Jared Skinner, whose journey from concrete laborer to investor in multiple successful businesses provides valuable insights for service-based business professionals. Jared's experiences, from door-to-door sales to financial management, underscore essential strategies for sustainable growth and stress the value of surrounding oneself with knowledgeable mentors and industry leaders. This conversation offers actionable advice on how home-service business owners can achieve profitability, leadership effectiveness, and lasting success.
Guest: Jared Skinner
Owner/Investor in 6+ businesses
Entrepreneurial experience spanning finance, door-to-door sales, and home services
Key Topics:
Importance of financial literacy and knowing your numbers
Leadership strategies for effective employee engagement and autonomy
The transition from labor-intensive roles to strategic business management
Benefits of mentorship, masterminds, and industry networking
Strategies for rapid scaling and sustainable growth in home-service businesses
Resources:
The Huge Insider Newsletter Signup
The Huge Insider Podcast Downloadable Action Guide
The Foundations Platform Trial Offer
The Huge Mastermind Info Page
Facebook Group
PCF Marketing
Transcript:
  Hello, everyone. Welcome to the huge transformations podcast. I'm Sid Graf out of Montana. I'm Gabe Torres here in Nashville, Tennessee. And I'm Sheila Smeltzer from North Carolina. We're your hosts and guides through the landscape of growing a successful home service business. We do this by interviewing the best home service business builders in the industry.
Folks that have already built seven and eight figure businesses, and they want to help you succeed. Yep. No fake gurus on this show. Just real life owners that have been in the trenches and can help show you the way to grow profitably. We get insights and truths from successful business builders and every episode is 100 experience.
0 percent theory. We're going to dig deep and reveal the good, the bad and the ugly. Our guests will share with you the pitfalls to avoid and the keys to winning. In short, our guests will show you how to transform your home service business into a masterpiece. Thanks for joining us on the wild Journey of entrepreneurship.
Let's dive in. 
Hi, this is Sheila Smeltzer with the Huge Transformations Podcast. Today's guest is Jared Skinner.  Jared has a great story that outlines the skills he's learned throughout his entrepreneurial journey and how actually caring about people and about numbers has been a huge key to his success.  Jared is owner and, or investor of more than six.
businesses, and he shares the important lessons. On finance and leadership in today's show. Let's dive in. 
Hi, Jared. How's it going Sheila? How are you today? Doing excellent. Thanks for asking. How about you?  Good. Yeah. No, I'm great. Great here in North Carolina. So Jared Skinner, we have you on the huge transformations podcast and i'm super super excited to interview you today Um, and uh, yeah, I just I want to know more about you.
I've I've been involved with you through the huge for a number of years, and I get to take a deep dive into Jared Skinner's life and see what's going on.  I'm pretty sure it's great after everything that I already know about you. So, um, so Jared, tell, tell our guests who you are and what you're all about. 
Yeah. Uh, so Jared Skinner, obviously, um, currently in Denver, Colorado is where we're based out of right now. Um, So I can give you a little bit of background if that's what we're going for. So I Yeah, please. Grew up in Idaho.  Yeah. I grew up in Idaho, a small town called Rigby. Uh, about 4,500 people. Um, my dad had a concrete construction company, so I grew up doing concrete work my whole life, which was a good start to learning how to work hard.
Right. Yeah.  Labor definitely hard work. Mm-hmm . Wanted me to take over the business. Wasn't interested  in doing that. Mostly 'cause. It's like super labor intensive and I, you know, my dad was on the job site every day and I was like, I don't want to do that because he just wore himself out. Right. Right. So anyway, um, you know, I started to see your mission for my church and then I went to, uh, college at BYU and  got a  degree, a bachelor's degree in business  with an emphasis like in marketing.
So, but marketing, So, you know, marketing back in the day, there was no internet,  so it was a different type of marketing back then than it is today. So anyway, I feel you there, by the way, I feel you there. Our first advertisement was in the Yellow Pages. So  right. Yeah. It was a phone books. And the Internet was just starting to come online when I was graduating college, so not  going on there as far as learning that.
So, um, anyway, married and, uh, met my wife at school in a statistics class. Our punchline is what are the odds right? 
So, um, got married and, uh, my wife, you know, stayed home, um, we actually worked together. So I actually sold pest control  throughout my college years. So did really well with that. Ended up managing multiple offices. I was in a regional sales manager where I traveled the country and trained all the sales rep for work in pest control.
Uh, I did that for about six years, actually.  So, uh, that was a really good experience. Knocking doors is.  Most people hate it, right? To be honest, like it's a hard thing to do. But the skill sets that you learn from that is absolutely off the charts if you can do it. So cold calling on people and selling stuff that way.
So that, that actually ended up being a massive  jumpstart to a lot of the things that I did in the future, right? With learning how to sell door to door, essentially. Door to door. Yeah, so did that for work and we were, you know, we were selling about 30 million worth of pest control in 4 months for them.
Right? So the numbers and the things that you can do is just insane with it. So,  and I did that for a little bit and then, uh, ultimately my, my goal. Back in the day was to work on like wall street for investment banks. So that was kind of the direction I was headed. I did, uh, went out to New York after we got married, took my wife.
We did, uh, interviewed with multiple investment banks. And, uh,  we basically walked away from there saying there's no way we can live in like New York city, right? Like that's just not my jam.  I'm from the farm country, right? We grow potatoes. So, um, we just, good  for you for chasing after a dream though. Love that. 
Yeah. Yeah.  So, um, anyway, so we ended up saying, you know, this isn't the life we want to live.  So ended up going to graduate school and got an MBA with an emphasis in finance. So I did that and, uh, worked in finance for about seven years with investments. So stocks, options, futures, Forex market, all of that fun stuff.
So the Forex market or just the, the investment world is just fascinating. Right. And that was kind of the direction I wanted to go. I just did a pivoted off of wall street, end up working for home from home in that space for a while. Um, which was good. And the problem that I had with that is that I felt like number one, I was going to die just sitting behind a desk all day, right?
So being raised, working hard and doing the thing.  So now I just felt like I was, like, dying. I was like, I can't do it anymore.  I've got to do something else. Um, so, just looking at different things to do, and I, you know, I knew I had the skill set to go style anything I wanted to door to door. So my wife and I decided we would, uh, kick off, you know, pest control we'd done for six or seven years, but let's just try something different.
So window cleaning it was, and, uh, so that's how I started. How did you decide upon window cleaning? How did that go? Where did it come from? Yeah, I had a buddy in, uh, Boise, Idaho, who was cleaning windows and, uh, you know, back then he was doing,  you know, three, 400, 000 a year, which sounded great, right? Yeah.
Yeah. I was like, if he can do that, I can do it. And I can sell this stuff door to door. Like I know I can sell this door to door. Right. That feels really easy.  And it was actually really easy to sell. So it was just really low barrier to entry.  I already had a truck and it's just you don't need much to get started like in the window cleaning space I was like, you know what it's not gonna cost me anything.
We'll just go do it and see what happens  Um, yeah, that was,  I think we started with 600 bucks.  Seriously. Yeah, that's the beauty of it, right? It's like, 600 bucks. And it's a two edged sword. Now it's like, well, that's not the beauty because anybody can do it and you wish you had like a bigger moat around like the space a little bit, but you don't think of that when you're.
Starting out a business, right? So it's like, what can I do? So, um, and the other reason I wanted to start something is, you know, when I was in the financial space, like I was like capped, right? And I just hate feeling like I can't move and I don't have anywhere to go. Right. Yeah. So if I have a ceiling above me,  it kills me.
So it's like, if I either have to start my own financial business, which that costs a fortune in the space I was in millions of dollars. Right. And that's just like, that's not happening. I don't think I want to take that leap. So I took the opposite, which was, doesn't cost me anything. Just a little bit of sweat equity and right.
Just go get, go get grinded on the thing. So  we were living in Minnesota at that time, moved back to  Colorado and  it off. So I would go knock doors in the afternoons, hired my brother. And during the day, we would service the thing and go sell in the evenings. The next day we'd service all the stuff, right?
So, um, that's how we kicked it off. So that's how we launched our first business was knocking some doors, knocking some doors. That's really cool. And I mean, one thing that I really relate to with what you told me so far, Jared is  Um, as I and I can tell just by you going through your story right now is all of the things that we do from literally our very first job.
Yours was in the concrete, working with your dad, doing concrete, the labor and all of the different opportunities that you've had along the way have contributed in some way, shape or form to what you're doing today. You know, it's it's all learning You and you, you get all these different skills that can, you know,  bring you to where you are today.
And so, 'cause I'm hearing a lot of things I'm hearing like, yeah, you had to do the labor. You obviously had to learn into, uh, lean into your door to door, which you learned from Orkin. Um, and I know that this finance bit is gonna come into play here in the next part of your story.  And the NBA,  right? Yeah.
Yeah. Cause I mean, you got to, you know, so in the corporate world, you kind of, to get into like these big banks, right. Investment banks or, you know, in a, in a nice big corporate job, you kind of have to have the NBA. Right. So, and the, in the longterm play for me too, was to be able to, if I wanted to, like when I'm getting close to retirement, cause I wanted to be able to have an option to go like teach at a college.
Right. Um, and so some of my very favorite, Yeah.  Professors or teachers, right? Where people who actually Did the thing  they're actually they're not go to school and then come teach it They're actually like guys from Wall Street right so and they were just like or people who owns like franchises or a Chick fil a or like and like five probably four People that like made a big impact just because they had the experience Right.
So anyway, that's like Yeah, is that still a dream of yours?  Um, so I loved like I like the education stuff, right? And I like  trying to make an impact somewhere, right? By helping people. Um, so I think big picture that would be a possibility for me, but when I'm all said and done with the whole business thing and retired, I don't ever think I'll retire, but that might be just a good thing to,  to do at the end.
But we'll see. Yeah. I love it. Okay. So take me forward because I know you've, you've accomplished a lot more since where we are right now, starting as like the bucket Bob with the brother and the door to door starting the window cleaning company. So tell me what's happened.  So, you know, kicked off the door to door thing.
We started, uh, we had a pretty good little strategy that we had as far as knocking doors. So we, and this might help some people who are kicking off. So we'd knock doors and then whenever we sold the job, right, we'd post a yard sign. Whenever we were servicing a job, we had like an a frame in the middle of the street, like next to the truck on the street set. 
doing stuff. But we knock doors. It's such a tight, you sell so many people on the street that we'd have like 5, 10, 15 yard signs right on the street. Like every 4th house, right? Was just  And so it just really created this nice organic thing and everyone's like, wow, I guess these guys are doing everybody.
Right. And when you're selling door to door, you could be like, yeah, we're doing them. And then we're like, yeah, I know we see your right. And so it just makes it like easier. Right. Yeah. And so that's for us. So we were able to, um, get kicked off pretty well. Um, and then we launched holiday lights as well at the same time.
So we just try to mimic my friends.  Business model who was in Boise, right? Just tried to copy what he was doing because it seemed to be working for him. And I thought 300, 000 was like.  Big. And it was right at the time. And so, um, so yeah, so we started to grow that, started to hire more employees and, uh, you know, in a couple of years, we up to about three years or so to about a half a million dollars, um, in that space. 
So I think, you know, when you ask about the MBA and how that plays in, I think one benefit of that is  obviously, you know, you don't have to have like an education to be successful in business, but there's things that it can help with and maybe things that it doesn't. But, um, The things that I think really benefited me was the finance side. 
So I, I really know numbers and I know how important it is to be cashflow positive and have money in the bank and like all that stuff. Right. So, you know, I've never ran my business like in the red, like ever, right. All our companies are fully debt free, no debt. And it's just that mindset of knowing how to control costs and.
Knowing the numbers and actually caring about the numbers, right? I think the big benefit to me, cause most people ignore the numbers and ignoring the numbers is.  can be death, right? If you really don't know what's going on in your business. So I think that was one big advantage. So if I, you know, had to say something to the guys who aren't  in the numbers or know the numbers or think it's a big deal, like, I think that's something you have to be very careful of that can blindside you.
Um, so I think that was one thing that really helped me out.  Very good. Yeah. That's. That's so important. And I mean, I can tell the opposite story and not really the opposite story, but  I mean, about 15 years ago, I, I just started working with a business coach and I knocked on his door and, uh, well, actually I hadn't worked with him yet.
I knew of him through my local chamber and I knocked on his door and I sat on his couch and I started crying and he's like, what is going on, Sheila? Like, I barely know you and I'm like, I need help. I don't, I have this business. I know we're making money, but I don't know, I don't know where the money's going, nothing's being charted.
Like, we were just doing the thing, and not even thinking of, like, I mean, obviously we were thinking, I was thinking about the money, I knew the money was coming in, but We had no financial reports. We had no chart of accounts set up. We had no budget. You know, it was nothing was organized there and it takes a minute.
It took us about three years to get that really going. And it's been a game changer ever since. I mean, now you can say when you know your numbers, you can say, yeah, I have a business.  Yeah, absolutely. And I think a lot of times we're just scared of them if you don't know about them, right? Or how to do it or how to go about it.
And so we just ignore it. We pretend it doesn't matter. Right. And then that's when you get in trouble. So, you know, big piece of advice kicking off is if you don't know, that's okay. Just hire someone who does, right? It's not that complicated if you just hire someone. It's not that expensive just to take that piece.
And do it for you, right? And I think that's a hard thing when we're starting out is we just don't want to let go of stuff or we, you know, we think we have to do it all ourselves or we think I have to figure it out, but I don't have time to do that. We think hiring somebody is way too expensive, right?
And we view it as a cost. And not like as an investment, right? So all we think is like, man, it costs too much to do that. Well, no, this is an investment in your business because it's going to help your business grow, right? When you understand stuff like that. I think that's a hard mindset  that we have when we start out as we think. 
It's all me. I got to do it all. I got to figure it all out. Right? And if you go that route, which most of us do, it takes a lot longer, right? To, to ramp up the business and actually get moving and gain some good momentum when we have that mindset. And that's hard. That was hard. It still is sometimes hard for me to let go of certain things, right? 
Yeah. There's, there's something, there's a few things really important though. You said caring about your numbers, like to care about the finance of the business. And that's true. And also to be able to explain the numbers when you read a P and L and you have some exorbitant costs in an account or whatever for that last month to be able to say, yeah, that happened because You, where, you know, what's going on in your business and you can explain the numbers.
That's when, you know, and at least for me, that's when I knew that I was like really starting to get it and be in control.  But the other thing that you said that I just have to take a moment and comment on is you said, yeah, if, if the, whomever the business owner is, if they don't,  if they don't know how to do that thing, which in this case, we're talking about finance, who does. 
So who, not how, right? Who knows how to do this and how can I outsource this so that this can be under control and something as important as the finance. Like that's, that's step number one. Yeah. Really appreciate you bringing this up. It's so important to talk about  so, but keep going. I want to hear more. 
Yeah. And one of those piece on that, especially in our industry where it's so cyclical, right? Like you kind of need to know, like, we know exactly to the dollar, like how much money we need in the bank to float the winner and to get through those bruling, you know, spring months, right? How much cash do we have to have set aside?
So we're not borrowing anything. We're not stressed out. Right. And even those little things just to make life easier, because the worst is when you're just.  So stressed out about your business, right? But when you kind of know the numbers and you know, you've got the exact amount of money you need to float this, and then this kicks in and all that.
Like, like life just gets easier  and business becomes a little more fun, right? More fun.  Yeah, like, like just killing it. So, um, anyway, so yes, we've traveled down the window cleaning path, uh, for a number of years and then, uh,  you know, started to join some groups, right. Just to educate myself more. So I think that's another big pieces. 
The key to, to really ramp up and to, to, to collapse time is to surround yourself with people who've done it before. Right. And so I started to figure that out and I wish I would have done that sooner. Um, so started to surround myself and come in contact with people who were doing. You know, bigger and better things than me, where this, you know, where they were, where I wanted to go. 
Um, so at that point, you know, we started to push up and ramp up a little bit more, um, and got our business up to a seven figure business. And then, you know, I don't know if this, this is kind of, I don't know. I'm not encouraging anybody to do this, but I'm the guy who, once I've hit something,  I kind of get bored and I'm like, I need something else to like get excited about, um, and our window cleaning business basically is just structured in place and Everybody was running the thing and, you know, I just check in with.
The people who are running it in a couple of times a week and they're just amazing and doing the thing. So now it's like, well, what's next now? Right. Um, so essentially, uh, got into the concrete coding space. So we kicked off, uh, a concrete coding business and  we did seven figures our first year in business.
Amazing.  And so. You know, with that, it's, when you look back on it, you're like, well, you know, how did you do that? Well, it's, it's because you learn so much as you go, hopefully, right? And you, you're able to figure out how a business works, how it functions, how to go to market, right? And how to, again, scale and collapse time. 
So that went really well, really fast. And we still have that seven figure business today. Um, and again,  not, I'm not a hundred percent hands off cause we're trying to do some other things with it, but you know, again, mostly fully functioning. Um, so has opportunities to join and invest in some other.
company. So I've got the opportunity to be part of the huge convention. So part owner in the huge awesome. And then we have a marketing company called PCF marketing as well. And it's kind of a different animal. We don't.  Anyway, that's kind of a tough one to get into. Um, and then one or two other companies that were invested in as well that We are part owners of, so look at your entrepreneurial story.
Okay. So, I mean, okay. So you literally go from concrete labor to sales, door to door, pest control,  investments, going to New York city, trying to do that, you know, thinking that's your dream, right?  I'm doing the investment thing, and then now I'm counting minimum six businesses that you're either own or have invested in. 
And, um, and I mean, that's pretty awesome, Jared. That's really awesome. And I just want to, I just want to ask, like.  You know, I don't know. It's still, you know, really like the demographic of who's listening to our podcast right now. Um, I'm hopeful that we've got a lot of, um,  more startups, new entrepreneur, not entrepreneurs that are listening that, you know, are trying to look for tips, but  like if you could go,  well, I'm going to, I'm going to ask you this question actually, because I think this one is true all the way.
Cause until, you know, when you, when you want to get out of doing the thing yourself, And you want to start hiring people, which is what you need to do to grow.  How would you describe your leadership style?  Because surely between all of these companies, how many people do you employ? Just curious.  Um, do you have any idea? 
Yeah. I mean, we probably have  currently like 15 ish probably. Okay. All right. Yeah. So, um, I mean, that's a lot. And so like, How would you describe your leadership style? Are you, are you pretty engaged with your employees or what does that structure look like for you? Like, what does your org chart look like?
Or, you know, what does it just, I'm curious.  Yeah. Um, so I do like to be.  involved a little bit, like to at least show up, right? Um, so I do show up to the office most days. Um, and just so I can see the people  and just say hi and let them know that I exist and that I care. Right. Um, I'm always trying to send out, you know, if I, if I catch wind that we get a good review.
So I, every time we get a good positive, like Google review or kickback from a client, right. My office people always send me those messages and I'm always.  Messaging my guys directly, just like, Hey man, way to crush it. Like, so I want them to know that I care and that I'm on, and that I'm watching that stuff because I am right.
Um, so I try not to like really micromanage as much as I can. I try to, you know, we have people who do the things, um, but I still.  They still know that I know what's happening, right? Um, because I do check on things and peek on things. Um, so we try to have a good culture. Obviously, we'll do, you know, Christmas parties, we'll do events.
So we've done stuff where we take our people like whitewater rafting, yeah, ATVing. Um, just company events, stuff like that,  just random bowling stuff. Um, but yeah, try to be involved. I'll try to get out on some jobs now and then, um, especially if it's, you know, bigger jobs or something that matters or, you know, just to go help out and support the guys like I like to do that now and then, um, just to be.
There. So, um, I just want my people to know that, like, I have their back, right? If needed,  like, I'll step up and do whatever. Um,  so as far as that goes, I think, uh, you know, one of my biggest struggles, though, which I think held me back and still, I think, holds me back a little bit is I've always had this hard time to let things go.
That was my very first.  Hardest thing is like trust somebody to answer the phones trust somebody to go out and do the job by themselves Trust somebody to go sell the thing right? Yeah, like just the trust factor and being willing to actually push Things off of my plate, um, was probably the very biggest roadblock that I had that kept me from, from moving quicker.
Right. Um, and I still to this day realize I'm like, man, I could be doing this, but I still am like, I just need to let someone right. And so in a way, I still. You know, we have some good things going, but I still know like we could do much more. Right. Um,  I think on the flip side, I think on the flip side too.
And I think I'm guilty of the same thing of we, uh, we want to be, yeah, letting some of these things go in the business, but I think for the employee. Um, maybe it's an office manager, you know, maybe it's an operations manager or whatever it may be for them when they're kind of used to us keeping our thumb on the pulse of everything.
And now we say no. You have the autonomy to go do this. Like, you know what to do. You have the autonomy to go do this on your own. They sit there and go, Whoa, wait, what do I do?  I mean, I have found that somewhat in my own business and, and some people, you know, absolutely love that. And some people, I think are still a little like, wait a minute, what's going on here?
So there was a real transition and to start out when hiring people. Like, what are some things that we can do when we bring a new role into our company? Let's say it's a customer service rep, a CSR, somebody who's going to answer the phones.  What would be your recommendation, Jared, bringing this new person into your business to set them up for that autonomous role that you don't,  that sets them up for success?
What's your, what is, what is your recommendation?  Yeah, good question. So I've, I've done a lot of different things really bad and hopefully better with, with this of, you know, as little as hiring them and saying, okay, listen to me, answer the phone three or four times. And then, all right, go for it. Right. And so that usually doesn't turn out very good. 
Right. And they just don't have enough knowledge and training and, you know, in, in guard and guide rails to keep them, you know, on the right path. Um, so we've kind of evolved over the years. So now we've got. You know, a training. Right? So we do a sales like on the phone, how to answer the phone, how you talk, what words you should use and speak and how to talk to the client.
Right? And so just a whole, you know, framework of just what that looks like. Right? And then Exactly. Then scripts on, you know, we don't want them to be robots, but you know, these are your key things you need to find out about the client, right? And we're not here just to  answer the phone and schedule quotes or schedule jobs, right?
Like we're here to make, cause if they call 10, five companies or three companies, right? Most companies are just trying to schedule them,  but we want to become like the consultant, right? Ask them questions, figure out what's really going on, right? Actually have some care and concern. We want them to like get off the phone and be like, Okay, I'm not even going to cancel my other quotes because these guys obviously know what they're talking about, right?
Right. So we also have for those roles like exact roles and responsibilities, right? Like this is your job, right? Bingo. Because a lot of times when I started, I would, I knew what I wanted to do in my head. And I say, yeah, answer the phone, schedule the thing. Right. And they would do that. But there was so much more to that, that I would just assume they would figure it out or just no.
And so you get frustrated with them and you think they're doing a bad job and maybe they're doing a great job, but the problem is me. I'm not like giving them what they need. to know to fulfill their role and responsibility. Right? So now they have a very specific role responsibility. It's like, you know, this day of the week, these things have to be done this day of the week.
These things have to be done. Right. And it's almost like a daily checklist just to keep them on track and keep them. And some people need that. Right. Um,  We need to know like what needs to be done. And then after a while, they've, it's easier for them to settle into their job and actually be super effective.
But  I think the danger is, is when we just, it's all in our head and we just assume they'll figure it out and they should know what we know and do what we would do. Right. Yeah, but they don't, we're all different. Like everyone's programmed different.  Yeah. And if I may just contribute to that, you know, it's. 
They have a role, they have responsibilities for that role, and then there's the tasks, right? The tasks are the da da da da da da da, like, do this, this, this, that. But when you start to define what the responsibilities are, and I, I come across this a lot in my business, where if I have Jackie, who's a CSR, and she's responsible for the emails, But now Jackie has to go out of town because of an issue in her family or whatnot. 
It's Jackie's responsibility to make sure the emails get handled, even if Jackie's not there to answer the emails. Right. And that's where the responsibility comes in. So it's kind of back to that who, not how thing again, but, but I mean, seriously. That's that's why it's so important. So your responsibilities may be like five things, but it covers a ton  on a task list, right?
Yeah.  Yeah. And to your point, if you're, if you're leaving town or if you're gonna cut out work early and we have leads coming in, it's your job to make sure somebody is going to pick that up. Right. Right. Like notify, you know, either talk to Jake or talk to so and so or talk to Amber, like  if you're not here, these things still have to happen.
Right. And so I love it. Your responsibility then  it becomes  assigning that out or making sure that still happens or checking it at home or whatever, if you can. But, but yeah, cause sometimes you'll just, somebody will leave and nothing's happening. Right. Yeah. So what happens when nothing happens? Like now what do we do as leaders, right?
In the business when the responsibility does not get fulfilled, what happens in your business, Jared?  Yeah. So first of all, a lot of times it's because I didn't, I failed to.  Let them know what should have happened in that case, right? We can just use that example. So yeah, I'm so glad you said that. Yeah. You know, and they might be like, okay, well, I'm, I'm gone this week and they don't say anything or do anything.
Right. And you show up to work and sometimes I don't know that they're out. Right. They just,  or I'll forget, right. It's like on the list of all my things, it's like not even on it. So I feel like, yeah.  They're like, Oh, she's gone. I'm like, Oh, well, who's doing this? Right. Like, I don't know. You know, and it's usually, you know, if I, if I just go after her and say, Hey, like you can't just do that.
Right. But it's, I usually stop and say, well, did I do a good job training that? Right. Did I do a good job setting the expectation that that was supposed to happen? And like, you know, the truth hurts, but most of the time it's because I failed to set the expectation. Right. We're all culprit of that. I mean, yeah, so number one, it's that, um, if I have set the expectation, you know, usually I, I try to, my motto is to just, you know, I feel like if we  show forth love to our people in good times and bad, right, then there's a loyalty that actually develops.
So I never really go off on my people, like I'll be firm and just like.  Hey, Caitlin.  I know you took off and you did this and or whoever it is, right? Um,  but we talked about it. It really puts us in a bind. Nobody's doing this. We spend this much to, to get this lead. We spent 500 bucks to get this name. Like, and if no one's doing anything, we're just like, you know, so it's important that this is done next time.
Right. And I try to do it in a loving. Yeah.  I know if it's my bad, I do try to like say, Hey, this is my fault. I should have told you this in the future, just so I don't forget, like, make sure this and this and this is happening. And I think when you come with some vulnerability as well to your people, so, you know, And they know that  they know we're not perfect.
They see all our flaws. And if you come off as like  the perfect person, right, it's, it's harder for them to respect you, I think, as a, as a leader, as an employer. So I think it's a hard thing to be vulnerable and to. It's okay if we screw up and yeah, people just admit we're human and, you know, and so they don't come after me if I screw up, which I do a lot, right?
So really aggressive way. So I try not to do the same, right? Um, it's kind of the, the approach that I take with my people, you just described though. Um, what I call the frame. Well, it's the framework for having a critical conversation. Um, that I, I originally learned from how to win friends and influence people and that framework.
And I teach this to my people and my company, and that's any confrontational  type of conversation that needs to be have or critical conversation is.  I see your side.  Here's my side. Now let's examine the facts. And usually when you do that, you will come up with a resolution  all parties are good with. And, and I've used that since I learned that 10 years ago or so.
I've used it in, You know, dealing with customers, employees, and it's hard. You have to bring these things because when you're in heat of moment, sometimes or whatnot, or you're dealing with a situation, you tend to forget, you know, but,  but, um, but you just described that and, and it's very important.  It's very important that we remember to treat people the way we want to be treated, right?
Because, because you're right. Then they'll be very loyal to you as employees and things like that.  So, um,  I've heard from you I've heard some really great words come from your mouth today Jared, and I've heard you use the word care  And I think that's awesome.  And, um, and you know, obviously you care about your people a lot and things like that.
But, um, you know, caring about our numbers, caring about our people. Um, we haven't talked too much about clients, but of course we care about our clients. They pay our bills, right?  Um, but  yeah. And, and so I just think, um, you know, it's really great to get to know you. I want to, as we. As we kind of conclude our podcast today.
Um, and what else would you like to share in regards to, you know, the way the direction our conversation has been going or maybe for our listeners? Um, what I'd really like to know as well is where are you going? Um, because  We all have a plan of some sort. Do you feel comfortable sharing your plan?  And then I want to kind of leave you for some final thoughts or anything else you'd like to share to our guests. 
Sure. Um,  that is a great question. Where am I going? So maybe it's my midlife crisis that I'm trying to figure that out,  but I really asked myself this question over the last I'm going to go to the next year or two, right? Like, what is the, what do I want to do? I mean, I've done, you know, it's like, where do I go?
Can I just keep doing this thing? Am I going to like shift gears? And what would that look like?  So, the answer is, I  For now, I'm going to stay on the path and we've got some things we want to continue to do with our businesses. I'm really excited about the direction that huge is going and my involvement with that.
So that gets me excited.  Um,  and so, you know, as far as.  I don't, I don't know the bigger picture, although I feel like there's still more for me. Right. And what does that look like? I'm not, I'm not sure yet. Um, okay. But I, I've been more, more and more involved with the huge, which has been fun for me on the education side of things.
Yeah. So excited about that and the things that are in the pipeline for that. Um, yeah, I don't, yeah, I see, I see you on the social media posts. That's great. I love it.  Yeah. So I guess I do have some of those that  I'm on there for. So yeah,  um,  but yeah, so I don't, I don't know that, you know, I don't really plan on taking like this, any of my existing companies to like a 10 million company or things like that.
Um,  you know, I, I feel like I'm just trying to do things that I love and enjoy and trying to fulfill.  Bring me fulfillment more, right? Versus the money, if that makes sense. So, um, we're in a good spot and I don't need to do more things for that. So now I feel like it's, how do I contribute? How do I help or, you know, make an impact is kind of, I think that the direction my mind's been shifting over the last few years, right?
So we'll see where that goes, but I'm not a hundred percent locked in.  No, I'm really glad you bring up the parallel between like the money and the, um, the feel good and the doing good things and giving back and the kind of altruistic side, because, you know, huge. And, and I love that with your involvement with the huge as well, because, um, since I got involved, I mean, I remember going to huge conventions before.
All of you crew owned it. Right. And then when you guys took it on, and then, you know, being invited to the BBB group and the AMP group, and now, um, the huge mastermind group, there is a very, like, there's no doubt that this is a, that huge is a business. Like, there's no doubt. You know, everybody sees that.
But there is that feeling within Love you too. And, and I'm not going to call it a group because it's open to everybody, but it's, there is a feeling there where it is a, there's a lot of caring. There is a lot of, um, standards. I believe there's a lot of standards that are set and like, we want to do the right thing as business owners.
And I, that's a very good fit for me. I can tell it's honestly a great fit for you. You're, you know, part owner of it, but, um, I just think that that's really important for people to know who are thinking about, you know, being involved with huge is that there's, there is a very altruistic, um, like very giving and caring,  caring, um,  uh, culture.
Within the huge. And I think it's, it's been an awesome experience for me. And, um, I love that you're a part of it. I think it's awesome.  Yeah. And I mean, you know, as you're talking about that, so, I mean, all of the owners of the huge right now, like we all have a very strong mission to help business owners succeed.
Right. And I think we're at that point in our career and in our life and like what we want.  And it's just kind of shifts, right? It kind of changes. And so we're super excited about like the huge mastermind. Um, and we're really trying to help people go to the bigger levels, right? With that. And we've got proven frameworks and strategies and,  um, you know, just building the machine that's going to help people create the freedom in their life that they want.
And so it's all proven and it's, you know,  Amazing business owners in there, the Mike Kaplan, Michael Dahlke, right? Who've done amazing things with their companies to tens of millions of dollars. Um, and we're just really trying to help. So that's fun for me, right? It's to get the P right there. It's so, you know, you get 50 people in the room to, to help and it's, it becomes fun to do that.
So, yeah, we're excited about the direction for sure. You know, and when you ask, you know.  And just kind of playing off this a little bit. So yeah, what piece of advice or what do you, would you tell people, you know, if I look back, I could have gone back, I could go back in time. I would say,  educate myself faster.
Right.  Find people who have proven systems methods, right. To scale faster. Cause it was really, it's, even though, you know, it was, it's painful to start off a business and to figure it out yourself, there's a lot of stress. I mean, I remember sitting at home at midnight. You know, I'm trying to just  respond to everybody and get back all these texts and stuff.
And I'm just like, I just remember stopping and saying, Jared, what are you doing? This is so stupid. Like, all you do is get up at 5 a. m., go to bed at midnight.  This is the dumbest thing. Like, this is not what you envisioned for yourself, right? Like, my family's suffering. I'm suffering. Like my, you know, you do have to put in a grind.
The answer is yes. But, um, if you know things.  Then you don't have to go through that for as long. Right. And there's shortcuts to that. And I wish I would have connected with the right groups and the right people to, to get through those pain and suffering points in my life, right. Quicker and had a better life sooner.
Right. Cause there is a sacrifice that we all put forth as entrepreneurs and it's, you know, how do we. Is there a shortcut to that? And the answer is yes, there is, right? You,  so don't, don't be scared to like make those investments. Put yourself out there. Yeah. And sometimes you do. Connect with people and find the right groups and yeah. 
Yeah. I have some real key mentors within my industry and really just throughout. Yeah. I mean, it's not even just in window cleaning industry or pressure washing industry, but um, Just in business. I have so many mentors that you know, they're on speed dial on my phone I mean, it doesn't matter what's going up going on throughout the day if I need some advice or whatnot you know, I can pick up the phone and call and And so yeah, you it's it's building those connections and you're right when you can go to conventions and in different events Mastermind groups and things like that, where you can, you know, put yourself in a room with other people because you said something that I said to at the beginning of this podcast, you said, wow, I'm in a room.
I'm with people like if they can do it, I can do it. Right.  And that's what it does. It kind of gives you some benchmarking, right? Like, Oh, wow. Okay. Cause that's what we're all doing when we're in a room together as business owners, we're kind of comparing ourselves. Are we not?  We're totally comparing ourselves. 
Do we think we are or not? We are, we are, we are.  I think it's healthy. Cause you know, you're, you're, you're saying like, wow. Okay. And  wow, that seems like totally unattainable to me, but wait, he's sitting next to me here and he's done it. Why can I not do it? And so, um. So, yeah, I think putting yourself in the room with the right people is, is good.
And sometimes you're going to put yourself in the room with the wrong people. And it's knowing the difference. Yeah, be careful with the form, right, and, and opinions online and things like that. Like those can, you know, you want people who can speak from experience, right, is usually the best people. And I  think the problem is a lot of times when we start, we have like these blinders on and we're just going through, but when you start to join some of these higher level groups, like it opens your mind, right, to like bigger possibilities.
And it's like, you know, you would ask me 10 years ago if I would. You know, have,  you know, my fingers in so many different things and companies and that said, no way there's no, it's just window cleaning. Right. And now it's like, what else can we do? Like, it's just, it opens your mind, expands your mind and it.
Breaks limiting beliefs. Right. And you're just like, wow, like there's so much possibility out there. Even at our last mastermind, when we talk about, you know, total addressable market index in, um, revenue expansion and things like that, most people's minds are blown because they're like, I had no idea, like there was this much potential right here.
In my own little town, right? In my own little town. Yeah. And so that was the, being the big fish in a small pond and, um, man, I have thought about that a lot and I've, I have come back and I've got a whole plan around it right now and we are going to work the plan.  You're gonna know it's exciting.  Yeah, it is exciting.
So,  so awesome. So any final thoughts, Jared?  Um, well, it's I would, I would just encourage you, you know, anybody that's listening, that's struggling, right? Is there? It's always a struggle, right? And there's even  you structure with the right people. Everything always comes up. But it's worth it if you just push through and connect with the right people.
Um, you need, you need kind of like a, an AA support group for business really. Right. Yeah. It makes your life a lot easier, um, by surrounding yourself with the right people, but yeah, don't give up. Right. I mean, the great thing about being a business owner is. That nobody  can stop you from becoming what you want to become, except yourself. 
And so that's what I love about it is you have the freedom and the opportunity to do whatever you can dream of, right? By taking the correct application and implementations and things like that. But, uh, the path's worth it, right? I mean, the goal is true freedom and it, it can exist  if you.  Can structure your stuff correctly. 
It's, it can be a real thing, but it can also, you can be, you've probably seen me a slave to your business, right? It can also be a slave to your business and have a really hard life. Uh, but the, the thing about it is it's a choice that we all make.  And your business is treating you exactly the way you designed it to treat you.
So if you don't like it, the great thing is you can change it today. It's just a decision. It's just a choice. It's just a new plan. And you can control all of that, which is, what's just the beauty of being a business owner, in my opinion.  Yeah, no, that's great. I, I think of it as, um, with that freedom, There comes responsibility and so like nothing's totally for free, right?
There's comes responsibility and you know, just owning up to that responsibility. There's so many good things to come.  So many good things to come. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Good point. Yeah. Well, thank you, Jared. I really enjoyed talking to you today. I've definitely got to know you. Got gotten to know you a lot better.
And, um, I'm sure that our listeners have learned a lot from, from your story. And I love the story and tell the storytelling part of it, by the way, cause we all have such a cool story and a lot to learn from each other. Um, I love that you care. And, um, I think that's an important story in itself, especially in talking with, in talking about business.
And I'm really proud to share that here on the huge transformations podcast today. So thank you for contributing.  No, thank you. I appreciate it. That was really fun.  All right. Awesome. Thank you, Jared. We'll see you soon. We'll see you around. 
Hello, my friend. This is Sid. Thank you again, so much for taking your time to listen to today's episode. I hope you got some value from it and listen, anything that was covered, uh, any of the resources, any of the books, any of the tools, anything like that is in the show notes. So it's easy for you to find and check it out.
And also I want to let you know, the, The mission for the huge convention and for this podcast is to help our blue collar business owners like you and I to gain financial and time freedom through running a better business. And we do that in four ways. Number one is our free weekly newsletter. It's called a huge insider.
I hope you subscribe. It is the most valuable newsletter for the home service industry. Period. Paid or otherwise. And this one's free. Next is the Huge Foundations Education Platform. That is, we've got over 120 hours of industry specific education and resources for you. And every month we do a topical webinar and we do question and answer with seven and eight figure business owners.
And it's available to you for a 1 trial for seven days. Next, of course, Is the huge convention or the huge convention. If you haven't been, you got to check it out. It's. Every August this year, it's in Nashville, Tennessee. That's August 20th through 22nd in 2025. And it is the largest and number one rated trade show and convention for home service business builders.
We've got the biggest trade show. So you can check out all the coolest tools and meet the vendors and check out the software to run your business. And it's got, we've got. Um, education, world class education and educators and speakers that will teach you how to run a better business. And it's the best networking opportunity that you can have within the home service business.
And then lastly,  if you want to pour jet fuel in your business, Check out the Hughes mastermind. Now it's not for everyone. You got to be at over 750, 000 of revenue and you're building toward  a million, 5 million, 10 million in the next five years. And it is a network and a mentorship and a mastermind of your peers.
And we help you understand and implement. The freedom operating system. We'd go into more detail, but you can get all the information on all four of these programs and how we'll help you advance your business quickly just by going to the huge convention. com and scroll down and click on the freedom path.
Or of course you can find the links here in the show notes. So sorry, I feel like I'm getting a little bit wordy, but I just want to let you know. of the resources that are available to you to help you accelerate and advance your beautiful small business. So keep on growing, keep on learning, keep advancing.
And if you liked the show, go ahead. I mean, if you would go and take 90 seconds and give us a review on iTunes, then subscribe and share it, man, it would really mean the world to us. It would help other people. And as we continue our mission to help people just like you and me. So thanks again for listening.
We'll see you on the next episode. 
 

14: The Brandon Vaughn Episode

In this episode, host Sid Graef welcomes Brandon Vaughn, a serial entrepreneur who has founded and grown multiple successful businesses in the home service space. Brandon began by taking over his father’s small window cleaning business, then scaled it into a 70-employee operation. Along the way, he discovered the importance of developing a broader entrepreneurial mindset, investing in the right people, and letting go of self-limiting beliefs. Brandon has since founded the Conquer coaching program (serving business owners nationwide) and is now focused on his new venture, HireBus, a platform designed to simplify the hiring process. He also shares insights on the power of adversity, continuous learning, and the excitement of growing through challenges. This is an uplifting, experience-rich conversation for any business owner looking to accelerate their own “huge transformation.”
Show Notes
Guest:
Brandon Vaughn – Founder of All-Clean SoftWash (scaled from 1 to 70+ employees), Creator of Conquer coaching program, and CEO of HireBus – a next-level hiring solution for business owners.
Key Topics Discussed:
Scaling a Small Service Business: Brandon’s journey from a single-truck operation to a 70-employee powerhouse.
Mindset Shifts: Overcoming self-limiting beliefs by seeking mentors, coaches, and peer accountability.
Unlocks for Growth: Hiring a sales team, adding new locations, and learning to invest in top-tier talent.
New Venture—HireBus: Simplifying the hiring process for small businesses in a variety of industries.
Future Plans: Rolling up multiple businesses via Hammer & Forge, exploring acquisitions, and remaining “coachably humble” as an entrepreneur.
Advice to New Entrepreneurs: Focus on finding and empowering the right people—avoid “doing it all” yourself.
References & Mentions:
Conquer coaching program
Dunning–Kruger effect
Simon Sinek (“The Infinite Game” concept)
Berkshire Hathaway
Yeti Books
Resources (mentioned every time):
The Huge Insider newsletter signup
The Huge Insider podcast downloadable action guide
The Foundations platform trial offer
The Huge Mastermind info page
Facebook
 
Transcript
[Sid Graef]:Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Huge Transformations Podcast. I'm Sid Graf out of Montana.
[Gabe Torres]:I'm Gabe Torres here in Nashville, Tennessee.
[Sheila Smeltzer]:And I'm Sheila Smeltzer from North Carolina. We're your hosts and guides through the landscape of growing a successful home service business. We do this by interviewing the best home service business builders in the industry—folks that have already built seven- and eight-figure businesses, and they want to help you succeed.
[Gabe Torres]:Yep. No fake gurus on this show—just real-life owners that have been in the trenches and can help show you the way to grow profitably. We get insights and truths from successful business builders, and every episode is 100 percent experience, zero percent theory.
[Sheila Smeltzer]:We're going to dig deep and reveal the good, the bad, and the ugly. Our guests will share with you the pitfalls to avoid and the keys to winning. In short, our guests will show you how to transform your home service business into a masterpiece.
[Sid Graef]:Thanks for joining us on the wild journey of entrepreneurship. Let's dive in.
[Sid Graef]:Welcome back to the Huge Transformation Podcast. I'm Sid Graf, your host, and today's show is really cool—it's quite an honor to have Brandon Vaughn on the show today. You may know Brandon Vaughn as the guy who built All-Clean SoftWash—a power washing company in Oregon—from zero employees (just one guy) up to 70 employees in a very short period of time, or you might know him from the Conquer coaching program, or you might know him from HireBus. He is truly a serial entrepreneur, but he started on the ladder, in the truck, running a home service business, washing windows with his dad. Eventually he took over his dad's company, grew it exponentially, then sold it. He built another business to serve home service businesses, and he continues to do that. He's a visionary in the truest sense. The great thing about Brandon is he's always been in the service business, looking to serve people: “How can I help and serve people?” Our conversation today—I wish we could do an hour longer than we did, but everyone's got time limits. I'm so thankful Brandon was able to join us. Enjoy our time with Brandon Vaughn.
[Sid Graef]:Hello, everybody, and welcome back. It's the Huge Transformations Podcast, and today you're going to be really excited, like I am. We have my friend and an industry leader for a lot of years, Brandon Vaughn, on the show. Brandon, thank you so much for joining us. How are you?
[Brandon Vaughn]:What's up, Sid? I'm doing great, man. Thanks for having me.
[Sid Graef]:Good. For those who can't see: Brandon, you're on the treadmill. You posted—and I chatted with you about it—your body fat dropped. You credited the treadmill and just action or movement for doing this. Where are you at now?
[Brandon Vaughn]:I've lost 45 pounds in about five and a half to six months, dropped about 15 percent body fat—down to nine and a half percent body fat. Literally, I just walk nine to twelve miles a day. I'm on my walking treadmill at my desk, on Zoom six or seven hours a day. I just decided one day to walk instead of sit, and the fat just melted off. It's been one of the best things I've done for my health—it's awesome.
[Sid Graef]:Wow, that’s awesome. The ADHD—my wife always laughs at me because when I'm on the phone, I pace in the front yard, back and forth. One time they set up a time-lapse camera on me because of how ridiculous it looked—like a caged animal, just walking back and forth. So this actually satiates that need to be moving while talking. That's cool.
[Sid Graef]:This is the Transformation Podcast, and we were talking earlier—it's not really an interview, it's just a couple of questions to hear your story, because everybody starts somewhere. Generally, when you start, you have an idea or dream, but you don't really know how it's going to turn out. A little bit of background—I'll let you fill in all the blanks—but you bought your dad's window cleaning company from him, and it was just you or just you and a helper, and then you grew it into a substantial soft wash company in Oregon. You had, if I recall correctly, either 60 employees or 60 trucks—something like that.
[Brandon Vaughn]:Yeah, about 70 employees, 24 service trucks. Yeah, I just started out as a guy on the tools. I've been in home services my whole life. And I'll be honest with you, when I first made my growth plan in year one, it was taking the business, which at the time was doing about 100,000 a year—and had been doing that for about 20 years—and doubling it over the next five years. That was my goal. Even at the time, I looked at it and thought, “Man, is that even possible?” My dad was like, “I don't know.” But I had to grow it, and I really had no idea what I was capable of doing. I got some really good coaches and mentors along the way and could never have imagined I'd be doing what I'm doing now. I’d say the huge transformation for me has mostly just been mindset.
[Sid Graef]:Yeah, that is so—I'm going to come back to that and dip into it because that's actually the fourth question I had, and you just answered it, which is great. You built and sold that company, you anchored and built the Conquer coaching program that has helped so many home service businesses, and you've had several other businesses and investments. Now you're all in on HireBus, helping not just home service businesses but other companies hire efficiently and hire A-players and all that. You just answered this, but I still have to ask: when you first started, your biggest goal was just doubling from 100,000 to 200,000?
[Brandon Vaughn]:Yeah.
[Sid Graef]:Along the way, as you're hiking up the side of the mountain, the higher you go, the further you see. What were some of the inflection points where you realized, “Wait a second, this isn't a 200,000-a-year thing, this could go to 2 million, 10 million,” etc.?
[Brandon Vaughn]:I'd say there were a few different unlocks for me. The biggest one came when I hired my first salesperson. That was unlock number one, because there was finally someone else in the business whose livelihood was dependent on selling and growing, putting food on the table, so to speak, for the techs. Up to that point, I openly acknowledged I was the bottleneck. There's only so much Brandon can sell. Brandon was doing six to eight estimates a day, hustling to keep all these trucks busy. When I hired a really great salesperson on commission only, that unlocked me to say, “Okay, Brandon, you just learned how to print money—this is huge.” We ramped up to five salespeople very quickly, then started doubling and tripling every single year.
Then the second unlock was when I went out and started my second market. I picked a location 45 minutes to an hour away, opened shop, put two techs in a truck there, had a part-time salesperson assigned to that territory, and grew that one. I was able to grow that location faster than I grew my original location. That was unlock number two: “Okay, this is how I grow. I can just duplicate the proven model and keep expanding.”
[Sid Graef]:I'm going to step backward into your head during that because you said it was all mindset. Did you do anything specific or have any key steps for expanding your mindset?
[Brandon Vaughn]:Someone told me: if you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room. I found myself constantly in an echo chamber, whether it's a Facebook group or something else, where we all had the same struggles. If I asked a question, they'd say, “I don't know.” Then they'd ask me questions, and I realized I was answering their questions. I had to change my environment. I went out and got a coach—Kedma—who was my first coach. She broke a lot of self-limiting beliefs about letting go of control and provided perspective because she'd spoken to hundreds of business owners, some way bigger than me. That perspective gave me confidence—“Yes, of course it's the right choice, go do it.” I was like, “Okay, alright.” So that accountability was huge.
Also, I'd tour people’s shops that were bigger than mine, bigger operations, and that’s where I started to see what was possible.
[Sid Graef]:Was there a point where you realized, “I'm the king, I have the answers,” but then you get around bigger players and discover, “Whoa, there's a lot more possible…” That’s the Dunning–Kruger effect.
[Brandon Vaughn]:Yeah, the peak of Mount Stupid, or "child's hill"—teenagers who just know everything. Once they learn more, they're like, “Oh crap, I know nothing.” I believe the Dunning–Kruger curve looks like a roller coaster—it's not just one hump and a valley and then back up. It's every day. Right now, this week, I'm doing things I'm terrified about—never done them, don't know what I'm doing. Last week, I'm on top of the mountain about something, and this week I'm in the valley of despair, hopefully next week on the slope of enlightenment, right? The journey never ends. The quicker you acknowledge you know nothing, the quicker you can be receptive to solutions. That’s absolutely critical.
[Sid Graef]:When you were growing your original business or in Conquer or even now, did you ever hit points where you're like, “Oh my God, I'm so frustrated, I'm ready to quit; I'd sell this for a dollar”?
[Brandon Vaughn]:Yeah, once a week. That’s not a fake number either. Let me remove the mystery: every successful business owner I talk to, especially really successful ones, feels that way constantly. The difference is the length of time they allow themselves to feel that way shortens over time. I no longer let it paralyze me. But the feeling of “What am I doing, why did I do this?”—that’s normal. To get somewhere you've never been, you have to do things you've never done, and that means embracing pain. Pain is part of growth. If you're comfortable, you’re complacent. If everything's great, maybe you're on the verge of death in your business because you're not innovating.
[Sid Graef]:I spoke to an entrepreneur whose greatest fear was that “this is all I have,” that he'd be in the same place next year. But he's grown well beyond that. Let’s look at your pattern: you started with your dad's business, then built Conquer, and now HireBus. Do you go out looking for needs, or do you see it as, “This is my problem, probably others have it too?”
[Brandon Vaughn]:I’d say it's the latter. I'm not out looking for a problem, but I'm presented with problems daily. One of the coolest things about coaching is I have over a thousand hours of my own coaching calls. I've heard just about every problem in the book. Even starting Conquer, I said, “Man, I wish I'd had this when I was in the thick of growing my company—done-for-you systems, done-for-you pricing so I wouldn't have to do 50 hours of refinement.” Same with hiring: the constant frustration—people ghost you, or you hardly get any applicants, or you hire someone and they're terrible, or you don't want to fire them because you're scared you won't replace them. It's all these self-limiting beliefs. So I asked, “What if we could make it so it's no longer painful to hire? You just click a button, and the top 3 percent of talent shows up on your calendar to interview?” That’s what we've built. It's been fun—customers give us feedback, we fix it. That’s what I’m doing with HireBus.
[Sid Graef]:If you compare and contrast where you started to where you are now, you've got a bigger perspective of what's possible. You probably couldn't have imagined you'd be here. If you tried to crystal-ball it ten years from now, where do you see it going?
[Brandon Vaughn]:Oh boy. I just started a company called Hammer & Forge—that’s an acquisition company buying up businesses. I've spent the last few years leaning into my “investor era,” buying, holding, and selling companies. One project is rolling up electrical companies. We just bought a 40-year-old electrical company, and now we can deploy a team of vendors, support people—Yeti Books for bookkeeping, Denzel for marketing, HireBus for hiring GMs—then rinse and repeat, buy more companies, fold them together. I see HireBus as a multibillion-dollar company because our problem isn’t just for home services but for all small businesses. We're helping a roofing company hire 60 sales reps in three months, also working with healthcare, hospitality. It's massive. That's where I'm spending 90 percent of my focus. I anticipate having a holdings company with additional companies where I'm an investor owner, and I'm also focusing on having an incredible family. That’s my biggest priority now—being a great dad.
[Sid Graef]:Looking back, what would you do differently? Or what advice would you give to younger Brandon or someone early in their home service career?
[Brandon Vaughn]:I’d really try to pound into younger Brandon’s head: it's all about the people you pick. Build your business as if you have no arms and legs—don’t DIY everything. It's good to possess that skill, but there are people dumber than you who built bigger companies because they intentionally released control and found people way smarter. Every time I've done that, I've had more time freedom, less stress, and way more fun working with insanely smart people. I feel that's been the biggest unlock as an entrepreneur—realizing that's where I need to focus.
[Sid Graef]:Would younger Brandon listen to you?
[Brandon Vaughn]:I hope so. I'd say, “You invented a time machine? We’re geniuses, so of course I'll listen.” But seriously, I've read the books, listened to the podcasts that say the same thing, and there's probably someone listening now who's heard it 10 times. The question is, “Now do it.” Some people only do it if forced. One of our Conquer members had a health emergency—they physically couldn't do the work or drive for sales, so they hired techs and salespeople. The business doubled the next year. Why wait for something like that? It's scary to do, but if we do it by choice, that's ideal.
[Sid Graef]:Thank you so much for spending time with us, talking about your journey and transformations, and giving sound advice. Whether they're early or in the middle, there's no end until you quit. You can keep growing.
[Brandon Vaughn]:That’s right. Simon Sinek calls it “the infinite game.” The players change, the rules change, the scope changes—there's no winners or losers. The journey is the thing you win. We’re so blessed to do what we do, and the more we come from a place of gratitude, the more we realize it doesn't have to be a dumpster fire all the time. Get better people on your team, though—that really helps.
[Sid Graef]:For sure—thanks again. That's a perfect place to stop. Thanks again for your time and for, as always, being generous with sharing and helping and delivering wisdom. Thank you very much.
[Brandon Vaughn]:Thank you, Sid. Anyone who's listening—if you want us to help you find someone for your team, hirebus.com/huge—love to talk to you and help more.
[Sid Graef]:Hello, my friend, this is Sid. Thank you again so much for taking your time to listen to today's episode. I hope you got some value from it. And listen, anything that was covered—any resources, books, tools, anything like that—is in the show notes, so it's easy for you to find and check it out.
I also want to let you know the mission for The Huge Convention and for this is to help our blue-collar business owners like you and me gain financial and time freedom through running a better business. We do that in four ways:
Our free weekly newsletter: It's called The Huge Insider. I hope you subscribe. It is the most valuable newsletter for the home service industry, period—paid or otherwise—and this one's free.
The Huge Foundations education platform: We have over 120 hours of industry-specific education and resources for you. Every month we do a topical webinar and Q&A with seven- and eight-figure business owners. It's available to you for a $1 trial for seven days.
Of course, The Huge Convention: If you haven't been, you've got to check it out. It's every August; this year, it's in Nashville, Tennessee, August 20–22, 2025. It is the largest and number-one-rated trade show and convention for home service business builders. We have the biggest trade show where you can see all the coolest tools, meet vendors, and check out software to run your business. We have world-class education and educators and speakers who will teach you how to run a better business. And it's the best networking opportunity in the home service business space.
If you want to pour jet fuel on your business, check out the Huge Mastermind. Now, it's not for everyone—you've got to be at over $750,000 in revenue and building toward 1 million, 5 million, 10 million in the next five years. It's a network, a mentorship, and a mastermind of your peers. We help you understand and implement the Freedom Operating System. You can get info on all four of these programs and how they'll help you advance quickly just by going to thehugeconvention.com and scrolling down to click on the Freedom Path. Or you can find links in the show notes.
Sorry if I sound a bit wordy, but I just want to let you know about the resources available to help accelerate and advance your beautiful small business. So keep on growing, keep on learning, keep advancing. If you like the show, please take 90 seconds and give us a review on iTunes—then subscribe and share it. It would really mean the world to us, and it would help other people as we continue our mission to help folks just like you and me.
Thanks again for listening. We'll see you on the next episode.

13: The Michael Kaplan Episode

In this episode of the Huge Transformations Podcast, Gabe Torres interviews home service veteran Michael Kaplan, who scaled a failing three-truck carpet cleaning company into a multi-state, 200-employee enterprise generating over 17 million in revenue. Kaplan shares how he stumbled into home services after exploring other business opportunities (including franchising Jimmy John’s!), and how leaning into “low-reputation” industries can pay off big when you focus on professionalism and customer service. He explains the evolution of company culture—starting with a “frat house” vibe, then formalizing values as the business grew—and how protecting culture and nurturing genuine relationships were critical to long-term success. Kaplan also highlights how recessions reward lean, scrappy operators, and offers practical wisdom on scaling, culture-building, and the power of investing in relationships.
Show Notes
Guest:
Michael Kaplan – Home service entrepreneur, formerly owner of a 17M+ multi-state carpet cleaning business.
Key Topics Discussed:
Accidental Entry into Home Services: Transition from exploring Jimmy John’s franchises to buying a struggling carpet cleaning business.
Rapid Growth & Recession Strategy: Doubling down on marketing spend during the economic downturn to outcompete bloated rivals.
Culture & Values: Starting as a small, close-knit “frat house” environment, then formalizing core values to scale effectively across multiple states.
Relationship Capital: Why building genuine relationships matters more than short-term gains—key partnerships and mentors can change your trajectory.
Operating Lean: Avoiding costly overhead and vanity warehousing; how lean operations can unlock bigger marketing budgets and faster growth.
References & Mentions:
Jimmy John’s
Stanley Steemer
Patrick Lencioni (culture and leadership resources): https://www.tablegroup.com/pat-lencioni
Warren Buffett
Resources:
The Huge Insider newsletter signup
The Huge Insider podcast downloadable action guide
The Foundations platform trial offer
The Huge Mastermind info page
Facebook
Transcrip
[Sid Graef]:Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Huge Transformations Podcast. I'm Sid Graef out of Montana.
[Gabe Torres]:I'm Gabe Torres here in Nashville, Tennessee.
[Sheila Smeltzer]:And I'm Sheila Smeltzer from North Carolina. We're your hosts and guides through the landscape of growing a successful home service business. We do this by interviewing the best home service business builders in the industry, folks that have already built seven- and eight-figure businesses, and they want to help you succeed.
[Gabe Torres]:Yep. No fake gurus on this show—just real-life owners that have been in the trenches and can help show you the way to grow profitably. We get insights and truths from successful business builders, and every episode is 100 percent experience, zero percent theory.
[Sheila Smeltzer]:We're going to dig deep and reveal the good, the bad, and the ugly. Our guests will share with you the pitfalls to avoid and the keys to winning. In short, our guests will show you how to transform your home service business into a masterpiece.
[Sid Graef]:Thanks for joining us on the wild journey of entrepreneurship. Let's dive in.
[Gabe Torres]:Hey, what's up, everybody. It's Gabe Torres with the Huge Transformations Podcast. We have an incredible guest today who is a home service legend that most of you probably already know by the name of Michael Kaplan. But if you don't, you're going to be really, really happy after this episode because there's going to be so much value in it. So, Michael, thank you so much for joining us. What's up?
[Michael Kaplan]:Thanks for having me—legend, that's a big word. No pressure, right?
[Gabe Torres]:The one that was weird for me was to call you Michael, because I always call you Kaplan. And so, um, I think I'm going to stick with Kaplan, but to everybody else, it could be Michael Kaplan.
[Michael Kaplan]:My mom gets my name wrong, so it doesn't matter.
[Gabe Torres]:Where are you at currently? Are you home?
[Michael Kaplan]:I'm just outside of Minneapolis, in Minnesota.
[Gabe Torres]:And that's home base for you, right?
[Michael Kaplan]:Yep, we're digging out from about ten inches yesterday, so we got a little bit of snow and sludge and all that crap before the home service boom in a couple of weeks.
[Gabe Torres]:Yeah, before busy season. So, for those of you who don't know Michael Kaplan, give us the quick backstory rundown: how'd you get into the home service space? What did you get into specifically in home service?
[Michael Kaplan]:You know, it was not on purpose; it was kind of by accident. I think that happens to a lot of home service entrepreneurs. But in 2006, I was looking at starting a business or buying a business, had run across plenty of opportunities, and really couldn't come up with a business plan that made sense with any of them. I hadn't looked at service at all.
Then a friend put in front of me an opportunity to invest in a carpet cleaning company, and honestly, I didn't know people cleaned their carpet. I was 26, and I started looking into it and thought, “All right, well, I can do that.” And the thing that really got me to pull the trigger, as dumb as it is—and this might get edited out, but it's true—was in 2006, I'm digging through the Yellow Pages to try and figure out who the competitors in the carpet cleaning space were. I'm flipping through, flipping through, and I came across one of the most reputable companies in town. They had a half-page ad with a little checklist of all the things they were awesome at, and near the bottom of the checklist was “We don't smoke in your home.” I was like, “I can do that! Is that where the bar is?!” Like, you know, we have to promote that we don't smoke in your home? So, I figured there probably aren't a lot of business people in this industry, I'll give it a go.
So I dug in and originally, I had three partners. We bought a failing three-truck, two-employee carpet cleaning company in Minneapolis, and we were running from there.
[Gabe Torres]:Can I pause real quick and backtrack a little bit? Because, like you said, a lot of people's journey into home service is sometimes accidental, or they're looking in one direction and end up going another way. What were you looking at before the carpet cleaning opportunity hit your plate?
[Michael Kaplan]:The first thing that really got me juiced up was I wanted to franchise Jimmy John's. I grew up in Minneapolis—St. Paul, actually—and there was one Jimmy John's in Minnesota. It's where you go to get a late-night snack, and it just became part of my culture. I was like, “Man, I went to college out in Maine and spent a lot of time in Boston, and there's nothing like this in Boston—it would crush!” So I spent like a year and a half pursuing that. Not because it was franchising, not because it was anything other than it made sense to me.
But the more I learned, the more I shied away from the opportunity because rent in the major metro areas, especially Boston, is just insane. If I were smart, I would open up 200 Jimmy John's in Minnesota, but I haven't been accused of being that smart. So that was the first thing.
The next thing I looked at that I got really serious with was a financial education program where we would get banks to sponsor us to go into high schools to teach financial literacy. It's an under-evolved part of education, and so many people make so many preventable mistakes because they just haven't grown up talking about credit or interest rates. But the nuance between the private sector, the public sector, and schools made it really complicated. It just didn't go anywhere.
[Gabe Torres]:Okay, so all over the board. That's cool. I love that. I was just talking to a guy who has a DJ entertainment business, and he got a random, crazy idea to start a window cleaning company. He was like, “I don't know if I'm going out too far out of my lane.” So it's always interesting, because entrepreneurs are always looking for opportunities and will take a look at almost anything, right? So for you, it was becoming Mr. Jimmy John himself, the financial education opportunity, and then landed on buying a carpet cleaning company—was that the one in Minneapolis?
[Michael Kaplan]:Yeah, I ran into the opportunity because a good friend was being approached to join an opportunity to buy the company. He had carpet cleaning experience. I, again, I didn't know it was an industry; it didn't appeal to me or jump out. I just started to learn about it and started to map out what it would mean, and I thought we could fulfill this type of responsibility, cater to the clients, figure out the money, and all that. The pieces came together.
But my real goal was—I didn't really have the vernacular for it, but I wanted to be in private equity. I wanted to be someone who buys and fixes broken companies. So there was a broken company in front of me, and I thought, “All right, to do this, I've got to start somewhere, and this one is small—how hard could home service be?” Well, it's really freaking hard, but my goal was to spend three years in the industry, working in the business, figuring it out, and then keep it or flip it. Success would be, instead of three trucks, maybe we'd have five, maybe we're doing a million or a million-two, and then I'd move on to the next thing.
Well, I ended up spending about twelve years doing it because the opportunity presented itself to keep growing. I was having a ton of fun, was still learning, and had more to prove. Also, I hadn't wrapped my arms around what leaving would look like, so I just stuck with it and kept running. We ended up in six states, had about 200 employees, just causing trouble.
[Gabe Torres]:A couple more trucks?
[Michael Kaplan]:A couple more trucks, yeah—maybe 80 or 90.
[Gabe Torres]:80 or 90 trucks. At what revenue point were you guys at twelve years later?
[Michael Kaplan]:17 or 18 million, somewhere in there.
[Gabe Torres]:Jiminy Christmas, that's awesome. That's a lot of rug-sucking.
[Michael Kaplan]:A lot of rug-sucking.
[Gabe Torres]:So three years became twelve years, a couple of trucks became 80 or 90. One of the things that we always talk about on the podcast is obviously you've seen a ton through that amount of time, and you've done stuff beyond that carpet cleaning company, still doing stuff in the industry. But when you think back from when you first got into it to twelve years later, there's the big issues like: how are you going to get the work, right? The demand part. Then there's how do we staff up for it. Those get talked about a lot. One thing that had to have changed or gotten ingrained over that time is culture. I'm sure the culture from when you first got that business to twelve years later—did it stay the same? Did it change? Did it get ingrained deeper after twelve years of you guys hammering the culture? Was there no culture when you got it?
[Michael Kaplan]:Well, there were no employees—there were two brothers, so there wasn't a lot of family culture. I think early on in a business, the culture is really defined by the leader. Eventually, when you're having success, you can sort of templatize it. I don't mean to downplay the need to work on it—it gets easier to reinforce, but harder if it gets off track the bigger it gets.
Early on, I was in there making egg sandwiches and pancakes and doing cookouts after hours. We were trying to drive business through postcarding, so we'd buy 6,000, 10,000 postcards and have licking-stick parties, literally licking because they weren't the peels. We'd just have a case of beer, and I wouldn't ask anybody, but we had maybe 5 or 10 employees. They'd come join me because I had a case of beer, and I'd be there until ten at night. They wanted to be part of something, so we gave them that community. Some of the driving forces behind competition within the business, spiffs, and things like that got them fired up about inching forward.
Service was one of our big rallying cries because the carpet cleaning industry is really not very reputable. People are not expecting you to kill them with kindness and care about the results. They assume you're going to screw them, so they get aggressive when there's a problem. We took the opposite approach and tried to say, “How would you want to perform in your mom's house? How do we templatize that and get people to pursue that type of service on a daily basis?” So we did it, I think. I'm all over the place, but we did a pretty good job at creating that rallying cry.
But it doesn't scale. You can't have a ten-million business that operates like a frat house doing 300 transactions—it's really freaking messy. So eventually, we realized the culture can't be based on the leaders and our rah-rah; it's got to be based on the team. We started using Patrick Lencioni's tricks and tips for documenting culture, putting it on the wall, and making sure we didn't have aspirational core values. We looked deep and tried to figure out what really makes us tick—what are the values that we run the business on, and which values can we hire and fire by? When you take it that seriously and you put them on the wall, it can be like a North Star that shows people, “We're going that direction, and you're never going to get hired—and you will get fired—if you're not going that same direction with us.” The behaviors people exhibit become meaningful. We'd take B-players over A-players if the B-player was aligned with our culture and the A-player wasn't. It's easy—maybe it's not easy—but it's not a Herculean lift to find new revenue if you had to fire someone producing a lot of revenue, but it is a Herculean lift to fix culture. So we were really protective of it.
[Gabe Torres]:At what point did you realize that didn't scale—that the culture can't be on the leader?
[Michael Kaplan]:We ran out of room on the grill for pancakes. The grill got too small. I always didn't have a job description early on, but down the road—when we were doing 5, 10, 15 million—I did have a job description. The top bullet point was always something to the effect of “I own the result of whatever our culture is.” I was the key ambassador for culture, but that meant I had to make sure policies and direction were aligned, not that I had to introduce the values and reinforce them with every employee, every time, at each step of their onboarding process.
Eventually, you're working on the business rather than in the business, so you need to make sure you've got the values articulated and cascaded down the ranks. By that point, you're deputizing the team and playing the role of chief repeating officer to a few people who then reinforce it with the masses. We were operating out of state as well, so there's a lot of repeating needed.
[Gabe Torres]:I heard this while listening to a podcast on Steve Jobs, and they were talking about why he was so good. He said he just never forgot that people forget that people forget, and that you just constantly have to remind them. So I imagine that in itself could become a full-time job with 200 employees and key people in different states.
One of the things you brought up earlier was you said, “Starting a home service business—how hard could that be?” Then you said, “Man, I found out it was really hard.” But also you started in 2006, right before a great time in America. Right now, I'm starting to hear a lot of people talk about how the economy seems to be going downhill, inflation is through the roof, eggs cost—I mean, my mom calls me every week to tell me what she spends on eggs. For the business environment that everybody's operating in right now, you are somebody who has gone through arguably a much harder time than what we're seeing. How was that, starting up a home service business right before the Great Recession?
[Michael Kaplan]:My story is probably a little bit different than the typical story because we started booming at the beginning of the recession. So September 11, 2008, we were operating five trucks, doing 1.1 million in ’08—on pace to do that 1.1—and we got some good press that day. We had pursued an article in the newspaper, and it got published, and boom, our business started taking off. That opened our eyes to the opportunity; it didn't reinvent the business, but it gave us confidence to reinvest differently.
But what happened is capital markets dried up, liquidity dried up, and anyone involved in property was getting their asses kicked. My business partner at the time had joint and several liability on 21 million dollars of real estate development—there were no tenants, no buyers. He had preorders, and they all evaporated because all the finance requirements changed. So he filed for bankruptcy at the beginning of ’09. Our business is booming; we're trying to buy trucks, and our capital guy evaporates. He filed for bankruptcy, so no one would give us any loans based on our guarantor.
What might be more relevant here is that while I think you need to carefully think through consumer mindset and the type of investments you're making when the world is rocky, most of the viewers of this podcast are smaller businesses. One huge advantage we had in growing during a recession was we didn't have a lot of bloated infrastructure—we were already pretty lean. The Stanley Steemer in Minnesota was one of the biggest in the country in ’08–’09. They were doing about four and a half or five million. Four years later, they sold to their franchisor, they had been running 25 trucks, they were running four and doing less than a million. Part of it was the recession, part of it was the employee bathrooms had gold faucets—it's also a second-generation company, and there wasn't that scrappiness.
Buffett has an awesome quote: “When the tide goes out, you see who's swimming naked.” That means, when the tide's in, maybe people are doing stupid things, spending on high interest rates or having too much excess capacity or too many employees. When it's boom time, they're not watching the budget. Then the tide goes out, the market gets harder, and it's harder to operate. So you find out real quick who's swimming naked, who gets their butt kicked.
We were a tiny tot running just a couple of trucks and started realizing, “Okay, everyone else is in the corner sucking their thumb, nervous about this recession—what if we get really freaking aggressive?” So we went from having a 6,000 monthly budget in marketing to over 30,000 within four months in 2009. Within a year and a half, we were spending close to a million dollars on media per year, and the opportunity was there. People liked what we were doing, and we had a model we thought we could run with, so we said, “Well, let's double down—get while the getting's good.”
[Gabe Torres]:Yeah, and I think you laid that out perfectly because had you been bloated, spending 10 grand or 20 grand a month on a lease, you wouldn't have had the extra to go from 4 to 30,000 a month.
[Michael Kaplan]:We were in a dirty garage that we were subleasing from a defunct cable subcontractor. They left town, had a little shop—maybe 7,000 feet—and we said, “Hey, can we lease a third of it?” They ended up coming back in the market and saying, “Hey, you’re leasing a third and using all of it.” That's true—but we were super nimble, and we were underpaying. Fake it till you make it, man. So many people I've run into have these vanity shops and spend all this money on warehouses before they really need it. Keep it down and dirty. Gabe, you can speak to it better.
[Gabe Torres]:Our shop is inside something called Dolly's Grooming. I tell everybody, when you're going to show up for your first day, go to Dolly's Grooming—don't go through the front door, because that's actually the groomers’ side. We lease out two of the old doggie daycare spaces that they don't use anymore. We have a parking lot back there, and we spend 500 bucks a month for it.
[Michael Kaplan]:People who don't get it might say, “Holy shit, what a slob.” People who know and make real money will say, “Damn, that's thrifty—I love it.”
[Gabe Torres]:Yeah, exactly—so nice. Okay, so one of the last questions before we go, because the time is wrapping up, is the same question we ask everybody: if you were to go back and do it again, what advice would you give yourself, knowing now—almost 20 years later—if you could talk to 2006 Michael Kaplan, what would you tell him before he starts to take on that carpet cleaning company?
[Michael Kaplan]:Before buying the business or right after?
[Gabe Torres]:Right after.
[Michael Kaplan]:You know, one of the lessons I've learned is about the value of relationships. I'd say there are a couple of moments where I can identify that I put near-term rewards ahead of building relationship capital for the long term. I think I've corrected that behavior, and I'm super focused on investing in people now. Most of what I do is building relationships, and I didn't understand how impactful or important it was because the right relationship can change your life.
There are times where I've not made an investment, where in hindsight, even if it wasn't the right investment, it would have been the right investment in the relationship. When I started doing that, my life changed. The partners I have today, the relationships I have today, they're both extremely meaningful to me and pay the bills. But for making some stupid investments in the right people—maybe for the wrong reasons—I wouldn't have some of these relationships. I know that's maybe a little abstract, but invest in people. Really find ways to double down on relationships.
People running a business, especially a startup or a new acquisition, feel like that guy on Letterman spinning plates—you're the dishwasher, the cook, the guy mopping the floor, the marketer, the finance guy. It's super overwhelming, and you're working in the business. It can be hard to step outside that role and recognize, “I need to invest more in this person because they're doing things I want to be part of.” Cutting relationships short can be a real hindrance to growth, personal and professional.
[Gabe Torres]:Nice, that's a great piece to end on—value relationships over the short-term gains.
[Michael Kaplan]:Yeah, I always talk about it as relationship capital. There's human capital, the people you work with and that work for you, there's financial capital you buy stuff with, but relationship capital has value too—it can be exchanged and traded, and it can create huge opportunities for you.
[Gabe Torres]:Yeah, I mean, we're both obviously in the mastermind, and even just thinking about some of the relationships there—I had a situation that was a 50,000 problem, and a relationship there found me a 500 solution because they'd run into that problem before. Not to pitch the mastermind too hard, but being in a group like that is how you build those relationships. So many solopreneurs out there—good on you for watching this podcast and trying to digest information, but being part of the group and being there, all of a sudden you've got a 50-person opportunity to pick your board of directors, and they're experienced people doing cool stuff. That's a goldmine. You talk about a 50,000-dollar problem—there are people who've made millions, going from 1 million to 5 million, or fill in the blank. When you look at the Jareds, the people in that group, how they've evolved over the years—it's huge.
[Michael Kaplan]:Yeah, absolutely.
[Gabe Torres]:Nice. Well, thank you so much for carving some time out to be with us, Kaplan. You have such a cool story that I think people barely got a glimpse of here—we'll have to do a part two or something.
[Michael Kaplan]:Well, thank you. We'll see how it edits out, because I don't know if I said anything that was too coherent, but it's fun to see you again.
[Gabe Torres]:Yeah, we will see all of you next week. It's Gabe Torres at the Huge Transformations Podcast, and I hope you guys go out and crush the rest of the week. See you later.
[Sid Graef]:Hello, my friend. This is Sid. Thank you again so much for taking your time to listen to today's episode. I hope you got some value from it. And listen, anything that was covered—any of the resources, any of the books, any of the tools, anything like that—is in the show notes, so it's easy for you to find and check out.
I also want to let you know the mission for the Huge Convention and for this podcast is to help our blue-collar business owners like you and me to gain financial and time freedom through running a better business. We do that in four ways:
Number one is our free weekly newsletter—it's called the Huge Insider. I hope you subscribe. It is the most valuable newsletter for the home service industry, period, paid or otherwise, and this one's free.
Next is the Huge Foundations education platform. That is—we've got over 120 hours of industry-specific education and resources for you, and every month we do a topical webinar and we do question and answer with seven- and eight-figure business owners. It's available to you for a 1 trial for seven days.
Next, of course, is the Huge Convention—or The Huge Convention. If you haven't been, you've got to check it out. It's every August; this year it's in Nashville, Tennessee. That's August 20th through 22nd in 2025, and it is the largest and number-one-rated trade show and convention for home service business builders. We've got the biggest trade show so you can check out all the coolest tools and meet the vendors and check out the software to run your business. We've got education—world-class education and educators and speakers that will teach you how to run a better business. And it's the best networking opportunity you can have within the home service business.
Lastly, if you want to pour jet fuel into your business, check out the Huge Mastermind. Now, it's not for everyone—you've got to be at over 750,000 of revenue, and you're building toward a million, 5 million, 10 million in the next five years. It's a network, mentorship, and a mastermind of your peers. We help you understand and implement the Freedom Operating System. We go into more detail, but you can get all the information on all four of these programs and how they will help you advance your business quickly just by going to thehugeconvention.com and scrolling down—click on the Freedom Path. Or, of course, you can find the links here in the show notes.
I'm sorry, I feel like I'm getting a little bit wordy, but I just want to let you know about the resources available to help you accelerate and advance your beautiful small business. So keep on growing, keep on learning, keep advancing. And if you like the show, please go ahead—take 90 seconds and give us a review on iTunes, then subscribe and share it. Man, it would really mean the world to us. It would help other people as we continue our mission to help people just like you and me. So thanks again for listening. We'll see you on the next episode.